How Top Leaders Avoid Burnout - Andrew Poles on Sustainable High Performance

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This is the Beyond the Story podcast, a show that goes way beyond the story. And now, Sebastian Rusk Andrew, welcome to the show. Hey, Sebastian, thank you so much for having me.

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Yeah, I'm excited for it as well, too. Thanks for taking some time out of your busy day to hang out with me for a few minutes. I know that we connected over on the great podmatch.com. Shout out to Alex and the great team over there doing great things, bringing great people together. So looking forward to our conversation here. On this show, I love to tell people's stories.

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but for context purposes for our listeners, I always like to go back to the beginning of the story. Now that's different for everybody. So you define what the beginning is for you, but bring us back to the beginning of the story where it all started and what I guess if I were going to give everyone the TLDR, this sounds like a full circle journey. So early on in life, I always had this sense, like even when I was in single digits, I wanted to do something with my life that really contributed and made a difference for people. And I didn't know what it was. So when I got through with college, I decided to do a PhD in philosophy. And one of the things I did while I was in that program is I, without planning to do so, I got my girlfriend pregnant in graduate school. right as she and I were breaking up. And so really, that's kind of where the story begins, because I had no plans of being a father, and yet I was going to be a father and a single father. And there was no way I could see being able to see and take care of my daughter in philosophy if I stayed here in Austin, where my daughter was going to grow up. And so I finished my coursework and left the program and started my first business for the sole reason of wanting to be able to take my daughter to work when she was young so I could see her. So my my my trip down the entrepreneurial path started not because i had a desire to start a business but because i had a desire to be a good father and i ran that business for five years it served its purpose i brought it with me to work i learned a lot of lessons the hard way made a lot of mistakes learned a lot about business and kind of got the entrepreneurial bug but i actually didn't want the business i started And in fact, it took me away from my dream of doing something with my life that really contributed because all I was doing was designing and building custom-made furniture. That's what I knew how to do to make money in college. So that's what I did for my first business. So during that time, when I was really struggling in my relationship with my daughter's mom, I discovered coaching. I got into my first coaching program for myself to help me navigate that relationship. And it did something for me that therapy never really did. And she and I did therapy together. We did it separately and it didn't really make a dent, but coaching completely transformed my ability to be authentic with her in that relationship and to work together with her and it really changed my whole perspective on life and i was deeply moved by it and i decided you know what that's what i want to be able to do for people and so five years after starting that business i shut it down and got a job running someone else's business while i started to study how to be a great coach and i spent 17 years being trained and delivering all different kinds of coaching to over ten thousand people all over the world and after doing that for someone else's company i decided i wanted to be an entrepreneur again but this time i wanted the business to be my business to support people with fulfilling their dreams so i came back full circle to that dream i had an early childhood and i launched this coaching business i currently have And in this business, I really serve the dreamers and their dreams. I serve entrepreneurs, founders, people who are building something meaningful in the world, something meaningful to them. And at the same time, struggling with what I struggled with in my first business, which is, how do you do that and do it to the best of your ability and not make sacrifices that you regret with your family, your health, et cetera? So how do you really win on all fronts? So that's how I got to be here as an executive coach now working with So you said something about coaching being far more effective than therapy. I know there are two different modalities of getting help. How Well, in my case, and I'm saying I'm qualifying it with that Sebastian, my case, because I don't think coaching is, is as like canonical or as rigorously defined as something like therapy. And there are kinds of therapy, there's cognitive behavioral therapy, there's the shawl therapy, you know, coaching is sort of like still the wild, wild west. I mean, just really anyone can hang up a shingle and say, I'm a coach. And that's not true of other disciplines like that. So in my case, OK, what was effective about coaching versus therapy was therapy helped me understand some of the things about why I felt the way I did. And it helped to normalize for me some of the struggles I was having. But it didn't help me break through. Coaching, on the other hand, pushed me to start to tell the truth. About aspects of my life in the ways that I was operating that I had either never seen before or never had the courage. to tell the truth about. And what I found through that coaching was when I found the courage to do that, to both look and see what was really going on, and then to tell the truth about it in my life, things started moving so fast. I mean, therapy for me was like a year's long process and kind of incremental changes. Coaching for me was step changes, quantum leaps, you know, in performance. do insights or breakthroughs that i acted on and that really appealed to me because i wanted you know i wanted to go faster i wanted to get where i was going faster and to be able to have one conversation for example with my daughter's mom while i was in that coaching program. and tell the truth about how afraid I was of her, how intimidated I was about what a great mother she was, and how much I compared myself to her and found myself lacking as a father and took it out on her. I was doing all this stuff and I kind of knew, but I didn't really know. Do you know what I mean, Sebastian? And when I can say all that out loud, Not only did it shift my relationship with myself and kind of take all the pressure off myself, but it helps her see me more as a human being as opposed to as an adversary. And it just shifted the whole dynamic in one 10 minute conversation. And I was just hooked. I wanted to know how to do Yeah. Most people are not open to the whole coaching world though, especially an ex or a baby mama. Yeah. Like, oh great. He just got back from another Tony Robbins event. Here we go again. And as you know, in the world of coaching, the first thing that they tell you is do not go home and start coaching your parents or your parents, your family, your spouse, who you are, because that's always the first indication of, you know, cause they're not understanding cause they haven't gone through that process on here. So, um, so I'm assuming that your daughter's mother was open to you, being coached and then having a conversation based She knew I was going into this workshop because I needed to change our visitation schedule to make it work. And I told her, I said, look, I'm going into this because I need to find a better way to work with you. you know, this isn't working for either one of us, and I'm going to take it on. And so she's like, absolutely, go do it. You should do that. You need that, like, kind of like that. So she was, I think she was hoping that I would come out of this seminar and be different. And I think she was really surprised and pleasantly surprised that What program was it? It's called the landmark forum. I knew it. I knew it. Yeah. I almost could have said it Okay. Yeah. I always say, you know, step one of unfucking your life is the landmark forum. Yeah. Yeah. Step two is implementing what you actually learned there. But my instructor, oddly enough, went on to do great things and become an incredible author I worked with Gary at Landmark and, you know, I have a great respect for him. He's an Incredible. I wish I could get back in touch with him. I've tried several times, but he is unreachable, but he's in Orlando, not that far from me, but still I've never been able to get back in touch. But that was, I did not want to be at Landmark. I walked out the first time, got my money back and I went back a second time.

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I went with my girlfriend at the time. I wish I would have not done that. But Because that Scottish accent and the whole, and the landmark curriculum was just, I mean, I still enjoy his, Unfuck Yourself is one of my favorite podcasts ever. I don't know if he's still recording it and doing it. I like the early days of it, but I read all of his books. just kind of full circle moment to go, Oh my God, that's him. I remember seeing him pop up on Facebook one day, but yeah, I got, that was probably 2013 long time. And then I later on about 10 years ago found a program called gratitude training, which is no longer around either. you know, training is a training. It's just different name and title on it. But this really, and this was effective. This is where I learned how to love myself, become accountable, past, present, future, really embrace forgiveness, really step into my power, really define who I am as a powerful, lovable, authentic leader. Like all those things came together because I'd done landmark, went to Tony a couple of times. This felt like a hybrid of both. No, you got Tony doing the rah rah Yeah. But I think the landmark forum should Hmm. Beautiful. I really did. I did that. That's what I, you know, I went through that whole thing with landmark and I wound up being a forum leader for a while before I left to start this business. They have incredible, uh, they have incredible, they call it a technology and it just, their, their ideas are distinctions. They're, they're super effective. Very, Yeah, they are. It's funny how people know I'm a landmark graduate based on my language and not talking about my expletives. Um, Yeah. Yeah. Gary taught me a few. Yeah. Um, but, uh, it's, I'm telling you, it's like nothing getting cut, getting cussed out by a Scottish guy that really wakes you up. It's just the best.

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Um, but I am grateful for the work and, um, I always tell him I I'm recently fallen in love and, uh, met the love of my life and never thought that was possible. And, um, she's a widow and she said, um, I feel like I've gone through like the painful part of life and I've healed through it. And now I'm like on the joy side of things. So like, I'm good. You know, she's like, I understand you like done the work, but like, I'm good. I'm never gonna go, okay, let's not start with absolutes here. I go, but here's the deal I wanna propose to you, okay? I'm gonna continue to do the work. And based on how I show up, based on the work I've done, if you feel inclined that maybe there's something there for you, just sit with it for a minute and see what shows up. Because here's how the work works.

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No one tells you, you need to go to the landmark forum. Someone tells you about it, and then you see how they lived their life and the impact that it's had, and you're called to the work. And she was like, all right, I can agree with that, but it's crazy how shut down people are to like, I hear a lot, like, I don't, Yeah. Yeah. Well, sure. I get that. And you know, one of the, one of the things I find Sebastian, and this is true to my life, even as recently as this last week, and I've been engaging in these kinds of conversations since, you know, I started my PhD back in 1994. So, I mean, how long is that now? It's 31 years or whatever. is that when you're truly curious and when you are, in my case, it almost feels like a promise I made myself before I came into this life, that I was going to turn myself into something useful, no matter what that takes. What I find is when you move through something new and you come out on the other side, all over again, it feels like a completely unfamiliar experience of life, you know? I mean, even just as recently as last weekend, I've been working through something. When I got to the other side of it, I was like, God, I just feel like, I feel like I just burned the bridges and I can never go back to where it was before. This feels so unfamiliar and yet it still feels like exactly the right place to be. And it's uncomfortable and it's fascinating and it's, You know, so what you call doing the work, you know, just sort of like being in that, that's like, I'm just constantly searching for how can I both be more useful and how can I be more connected to the truth of my existence? You know, how can I be more and more connected to the essence of what I am and not stuck with my fears and my traumas and my, you know, stories and all that stuff. And it is a wild ride, man. But I'll tell you what, this makes life super fulfilling for me and interesting. And hopefully for Yeah. Well, I started doing somatic If you listen and you never tried it, you need to go hyperventilate for 45 minutes.

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It'll change your life. And my breath work practitioner said, you know, there's layers of the work and I've done some medicinal work and which is definitely going to the other side and back.

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And she said, the deepest work you'll ever do is in an intimate relationship with another human being. And I said, well, that's terrifying. So I avoided that like the plague. I was really the guy, like I spent 18 years raising my kid on my own center off to college. And I was finally free. I can do whatever I want whenever I wanted, wherever I want my business. And then I realized, guess what? That's not all what it's cracked up to be either. Cause Andrew, I got to a place where, I thought, shit, no one needs me. And that is a shitty feeling. It's like, I just want to do something. And now fell in love with a single mom of two kids, a 14 year old and an eight year old. And like, it's been, you know, three months, like we're new, but like a lot of life has happened in 90 days. Like a lot of life has happened. It feels like it doesn't feel like 90 days, but my buddies joke, they're like, Hey, like careful what you ask for.

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Because before you know it, she's going to put you to work and you'll be in the parent pickup line at 3 p.m., which is true. But I also feel called to that next phase of where it's at. You know, people say, how's it been? It's been beautiful. It's been amazing. I'm at the level of my life. I never thought it was possible. I'm the guys that I am never. And I do mean never in all caps, getting married. Marriage is the only war where you sleep with the enemy. I'm not doing it.

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No, no, no. I'm free. And I met her and everything changed and I felt called and I'm, I'm a man of faith. I feel like God creates the desires of our heart. And I feel very called to this woman. I feel very called to her kids and her life and her family and having raised my daughter check plus I know how to do it. Right.

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Um, but, I'm learning that relationships are in fact a mirror and a reflection and a magnifying glass for us to take a closer look at areas we haven't yet met ourselves at. And that's what's happened over the past three months. It's been beautiful and love and great and all the things. but it's also been ripped wide open. And I feel like I've been at the forum for the past 90 days with somebody who's not that familiar with going and doing the work. It's kind of crazy how that ends up working out that, yeah, it's I'm so excited for you, man. I can hear that this whole thing is flipped, flipped you back on. I just turned you back on again, you know, that's awesome. Congratulations.

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Thanks, man. And every, in every single area. I mean, I'm kind of like, it doesn't even feel real, but it, but it is, but all of our, like much like, like, like with coaching are a lot of our stuff shows up, especially when we don't want it to. Um, what are we willing to face? You Yeah, I'll tell you the thing that I'm most challenged by now, which is kind of a different elk than what you're sharing, but probably just a different kind of challenge is that. Did you know that Heidegger, when it was philosopher Heidegger, had this expression called a clearing? And I know this term got used in Landmark too, but the person who actually coined it is this guy named Heidegger. And he talked about how being human is like, human beings are a certain kind of clearing for the way life shows up. So the idea is, it's sort of like this. You have a bucket of white paint, okay? If you drop in one drop of red dye and you stir it up, you will have pink. Now that everything you put in there, no matter how much more white you add or whatever, it's all going to be colored by pink, right? So a clearing is like that. So I had this experience over the weekend in a meditation I was doing. where I had this intuition to visualize walking down its tunnel of light. And it was hard for me to do. I could picture the tunnel from the outside, but it was hard for me to put myself in the tunnel. And so when I did that, I felt like my brain was working really hard to focus on this image. And when I walked to the end of it, there was this blue-white, almost like a sky-like looking space. And I stepped out into this space, And Sebastian, the second I entered into that, whatever, visual part of the thing, I could see the pink in the white. And the pink, for my case, was striving. You know, just had been striving almost my whole life for whatever, you know, to make be successful, to make more money, to write the book, you know, to gain weight, to lose weight, you know, to make someone laugh, you know, to be included, just striving, striving from some sense of, if I accomplish this, maybe then I'll be okay. If I accomplish this, maybe then I'll be legitimate. Maybe then I'll have credibility, you know? And then the striving, the second I saw the pink, it was like, Ha, I was back in the white paint. And that whole need to strive, to accomplish, to get somewhere else, it just literally disappeared.

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And I was sitting there in the space, and it simultaneously, I felt this incredible peace, but then I was like, What the heck am I going to do now? So I'm not striving for anything, so what the heck's my life even about if I'm not striving for something? And it was kind of confusing. And it feels to me like my kind of corollary to you having this person come in your life and reorient you around everything and things you didn't think you were going to go do and whatever is, I always kind of felt like my calling was to be a like a mouthpiece for something bigger than myself.

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Not to necessarily share my ideas, but to be available to say what needs to get said.

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Like to be a vessel, to be a mouthpiece. I don't know how else to say it. To be like a prophet. Not like a prophet who tells the future, but like a prophet who speaks on behalf of whatever wants to be said. I feel like I'm being cleaned out of all of these desires and the way I thought I would do my life and make this much money and have this much success and have this many followers on social media. And now it's all just poof, gone. And so now my whole day, every day is so different. I had a call yesterday with one of my clients and she and I coach each other because she's also a marketer. She's brilliant. And she's like, you're just like, she's like, you're different, man. She goes, you just seem so calm. I'm like, yeah, I'm not like striving for anything. And so I'm trying to figure out in terms of what I'm doing next, Sebastian, like, and I know I don't actually have to figure it out, but my brain wants to figure it out. My brain wants the certainty of knowing what's coming, knowing what to do. Like, you know, and I know I'm not going to get it, but it was my brain trying to figure out like, okay, well, how do I coach? Like, what am I supposed to talk about from here? And I get on these coaching calls and somehow what there is to talk about just shows up from the other person. It's not what I had planned. You know, it's not. So, yeah, I'm just, I'm in this really interesting new space of feeling like I'm being cleared out to make room for something else. And the something else isn't exactly clear, Yeah. Well, what's that I've been thinking a lot about that. I love the, I love this whole thought around this whole clearing. Cause I feel like I'm in a very similar season where old ways just don't work anymore. Nor is the desire there. Like I guess like sports would be the greatest example. Like I'm a diehard sports fan. I love to watch football and college football and hang out and do nothing and just be a degenerate on a Saturday afternoon at her. And I'm like, what game? Well, that's right, they're playing today. It's not that I don't care. It's just that this new season is different. And what we used to care about isn't as It's like- Yeah, yeah. I think it's so beautiful. She's so lucky, dude. She's so lucky that your whole world just got reoriented around her and her family. What an amazing She's like, are you crazy? I said, yes, I am. She said, but you're free. Why in the world would you want this crew? And I go, again, I can't explain it. But what I can explain is that God does in fact create the desires of our heart. I do know Dude, how lucky are you that you have this woman who's willing to share her family with you and that you participate in that when you thought that season of your life was closed? I mean, this Like of all the guys, I told her, of all the guys on the planet, God's like, Rusk will do. Yep, that's going to work. He's perfect for the job, you know? Wow. Yeah, quite the experience. I mean, I'm really grateful, but I told her, you know, I didn't, it took this long to meet you because number one, you were married. There's one small factor. but I also wasn't ready. And God's been shaping and molding and pruning me for the past decade so that I'm ready for you. And as you can see, there's still work to be done because the pruning continues on where it's all at. Cause I'm not getting anything past her. Like, you know, like, like as, as Gary would say, you know, the jig is up, you know? So, uh, yeah, man. Wow. That's, I love the, uh, the similarities of our story. And that's why I love being a storyteller. And that's why I love the world of podcasting. And I've dedicated my life to this work and have for the past decade now, which is wild to even say is because I get to see what people get to become. I mean, one of the main talks I give is, how starting a podcast can radically change your life and your business if you let it. And podcasting has very little to do with the episodes and everything to do with who you get to become. And I'm qualified to talk about that because I've lived it, I continue to live it, and now I get to empower other people to go and do all that. But these conversations are part of that equation, which I love. Amazing. So I'm looking forward, I'll be in Austin end of February, and then I'll be Yeah. For sure. We're going to do that. Well, man, I really enjoyed our conversation. I look forward to staying in touch with you here. Any final thoughts for our Wow. Um, come on, Andrew, get in there. You can hear from, but you can, well, I was just taking a second to actually listen, you And so I think, you know, imagine that, imagine taking a, imagine taking a moment to see what shows up. Right. Exactly, Yeah, I think one of the things that emerged from you sharing your story and me sharing mine is it's an amazing way to go through life to be available for what the universe wants versus what you think you need, and to actually be open to and listening for that and able to respond. Because there is an intelligence much greater than what we can fit in our little pea brains you know, that we're all a part of. And so maybe one thing people could take away from today is that that intelligence is for you, always on Love that. Andrew, you're the man. We'll have to get you back on the show sometime, talk about your adventures you got going on in 2026 and beyond. But thanks again for your time. It's my privilege to have this conversation with you, and I sure do appreciate it.

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It's great to meet you. I'm super stoked for you. Best of luck with this relationship. I look forward to seeing you in February. Thank you, my friend. Until Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Beyond the Story podcast. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. We sure do appreciate it. Signing off from the podcast, Launchlab.com Studios.