EPISODE 15: The Social Media SUCKS Show - Mark Shaw - Twitter, Live Streaming & #TagTribes

SPEAKER_01 0:01

What is happening, everybody? I'm Sebastian Rusk, and this is the Social Media Suck Show. That's right, social media sucks if you don't know what you're doing. I'm a social media strategist. I wrote a book called Social Media Sucks if you don't know what you're doing. And I'm the host of your show of this show today. And today I've got with me directly to my left. I want to say to my right, but I know it's to my left based on viewers. The extremely talented Twitter guru, the brain behind the brains behind tag tribes himself, Mr. Mark Shaw. Mark, welcome to the show, brother. Sebastian, thank you for having me. That's a great introduction. And you know what? You're dead right. Social media sucks when you don't know what you're doing. It most definitely does. And uh I, you know, I was originally gonna call the book um Social Media's Here to Stay.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

No, that's boring. That's that's that's not gonna sell many copies.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

That will sell three copies, you, your mom, and your dad. Yeah, you are you are I might be able to talk my neighbor into buying a copy. So, so the the um um so I was in a strategy session with my friend Michelle Villos before I wrote the book, and she's like, What? You're gonna call the book that? She's like, There's no way you've got an over-the-top, in your face, unapologetic um point of view. It's gotta be like, you gotta, you know, and uh I said, what about social media sucks? And she goes, that's it. So um it actually stuck. And then I did a photo shoot and I forgot that I took this picture and uh I just gave the whole the whole photo album over to uh the design team and they came back with uh with that crazy picture. So it's funny how your branding, when you least expect it, ends up falling in falling into place later on. So enough about me. I'm I'm here to talk about you. So uh you you um you you've really been active in the live streaming community, but before we get into how things have gotten crazy for everyone over the past what five or six months, why don't you give viewers a a good understanding on on where did you start seven years ago with this whole Twitter thing? And where did it where did the light go off where you said, you know what, there's something here and this is not going to change and it's not gonna slow down.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Okay, so um I was a mortgage broker for many years, doing that very successfully until the financial world all collapsed in 2008. Um, and I found Twitter, like most people, did not have a clue why anyone would want to know I'm having a cheese sandwich. Unlike most people, I spent the best part of the year trying to figure it all out. But what I really wanted to figure out is yes, it's fun, yes, it's social, yes, you can have a great time, yes, you can follow Lady Garga if you want. But is there any business to this? Can you actually get leads for your business out of social? And that's what I talked about all the time. Yes, have fun, yes, be social, yes, you don't need to sell, but can you get business? And that's what I talked about. And suddenly I found after about a year, people were coming my way, people very interested in what I had to say. Uh and from there, done about 170 radio interviews, go-to guy for the BBC, done the book, speak all around the country about it, and and just love it, and it suits the my style of getting a message across. And I say how I see it, I'm 49 years old, I'm too old to do fluff and bully and all that bullshit that you hear everyone talking about. I tell people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear, and it resonates with a lot of people because I've been there, done it, had the t-shirt, made every mistake under the sun, uh got it all wrong, been suspended a few times from Twitter. You name it, it's happened to me. So I talk with authority because I've been there and done it.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Sure. So, and and what's the primary focus now, now that you've adapted to understanding how it all works and showing people how it works? Um, do you do you engage with with large brands, individuals, entrepreneurs? Is it is it a mix? I mean, what's the core of your business?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, so where am I now? I'm sort of semi-retired, if the truth be known. Through a set of circumstances, I don't particularly need to work that hard. Very grateful for that. I go on holiday a lot, I was in India for five weeks, Florida for five weeks, just come back from Spain. So I go away a lot, but when I'm not working as such, and I don't call the work that I do actual work, I just enjoy what I do. Uh, I work with various organizations, strategy, policy, ideas, what not to do, what to do. I train their students, their staff, people who want to engage me, and I get very well paid to speak all over the place on Twitter, on social media. So that's where I sort of focus my efforts nowadays. So you're basically just having fun. Just absolutely. And you know what? Here's the funny thing: the more fun I have, the more business comes my way. The more I just, you know, everyone that knows me, who you know is engaged with me in whatever platform they happen to know, will often says to me, Mark, what are you selling? What do you sell? What do you do for money? You you never talk about a product. I don't have any e-courses, webinars, uh none of that stuff. I just help as many people as I can achieve what they want. I help as many people help give them inspiration on things they can and can't do. Because you know what, I've been there, I've done it, I've had all sorts of problems, financial, all sorts of things. And because of that, people now just suddenly want to start hiring you and coming your way and doing all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Okay. People were saying I was frozen. Yeah, you're back now, you're here, you're back. It's always good when you come back to your own show. It's all it's that's always that's always a plus. So um that's interesting that you say that, that you're you know, you're you're semi-retired and you're really working from a space of passion, which that's really what life's all about, anyway, or you're wasting your time. Um, is that must come across very transparent to the people that you do end up working with, say, hey, this guy doesn't even have to do this. He does it because he enjoys it.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

And I and I think that's really important. Being authentic, saying what you mean, you know, you might preach, you know, there's so many that talk one story that do something the complete opposite. You know, they say they're all about this, but they're really doing that. There's a hidden agenda, there's the, you know, I'm not selling anything, but by the way, can you all please buy my book? There's all that sort of stuff. And I don't like any of that. I'm completely transparent. I have some rules in my head. You know, rule number one: one to many is free. That is my rule. One to many is free. Blogging is free, blab is free, Periscope, Twitter, Facebook, all the social media stuff I do, I give as the best advice I possibly can. One-to-one, that's on the meter. When people say, Can I pick your brains? Can I meet you for coffee? Can I, that's when it starts being on the meter. Right. Other than that, it's free. And and here's the funny thing, Sebastian, okay. I've learned you give your best advice. You don't give half the advice, or you don't give, you don't save the best for another place. I just give the best that I possibly can to help people achieve whatever they want or not whatever they want, whatever that is. And out of that, people contact me.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, it's you know, it's about I I talk a lot about becoming the go-to source, you know, for for what you do. And I I learned that uh early on um from Gary Vanderchuk, just talking about, you know, if you can, if you we have that, we all have that person in our life, or maybe we're that person for someone, where when shit hits a fan or uh good, bad, or indifferent, we've got that person to go to. Imagine being that as a brand. I mean, you you you make such a deep emotional connection by doing so. And I believe that social media really affords us the opportunity to really provide that. And you're right. You want to pick my brand. Well, here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Here's the thing. Social media is not about your budget. This is not about big business, small business. It's about, in fact, it's better for small business because big business is a juggernaut. It takes five years for them to decide what they're gonna get up to. But sadly, so many small businesses miss the point, don't get it, want to fast track, want to break all the rules, think they know a different way or a better way, or you know, an unusual way of doing the same thing. And it's not. It as I always keep telling people, it is social media, not selfish media, not do it on my own media, not I don't, I can automate everything media. It's social. And the funny thing is, the more social you are, the more stuff starts happening.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Really? I uh that that is uh I have not I have not heard that. And I and it just when you think you've uh you've heard all the quotes, it's not selfish media, it's social media for the love of the bow ties. Will somebody please tweet that out and tag mark? Yes, that is so true. And I think that um we are, you know, I think the brands misconstrue in businesses just because this stuff is all new, but plus by default, I think by human nature we're just narcissistic individuals. So by default, we see a number like a billion people, and we thought, wow, if I could just get my widget out in front, and there's so much pushing taking place, the pulling process is just obsolete.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Listen, you know, I as I say again, pushing is 1975, and a vast majority of people are still trying to sell like they're in 1975. The modern way is very different. You need to pull people to you, and the analogy I give to people is how do you catch butterflies in your garden? There are two ways. One is you have a very big net, which is what most people are doing. Pushing, add value, help others, support others, and when you do that, people come your way. You then get a very different conversation with them.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah, what you 100% do. And I and I think that um, you know, I I watch a lot, I've been watching uh Grant Cardone a lot, and he's been doing a good job on um on uh on live streaming. Um, of course, just another great example of an existing web celeb per se that has a big following. That when a big platform shows up like Periscope, if you're smart and you're on it and you got a big following like yourself, you're your first mover's advantage. If you have a large following for a native platform that's tied to where your big following is by default, you can leverage it. And that's exactly that's exactly what I think he's coming back in here. Are you there? I'm back. All right, cool. So, and that's exactly what you've done. Uh, Kim Gars has done an incredible job of of of of taking webinars and putting them on scope, scope for biz. Grant Cardone has. The thing with Grant is that his his message is so hardcore, and I get his message. I was I was raised in that school. Burn them down, bring them up, lift up your skirt, sound off like you got a pair, and go close the deal. And I know that he thrives and he's got a successful business and he's active on social media, but how does that message tie with, like you said? And that was a big, big adjustment for me, Mark, probably six or seven years ago was I was the guy that provided the marketing for the mortgage and real estate companies. So I know all I did was close the deal. That's what I did. People paid me to make their phone ring all day with people that needed their services. So to stop selling and start listening and providing value and via the go-to source was a huge adjustment. So um it it's it'll be interesting to see, even when you go buy a car these days. I mean, you really don't get your head pounded in. It's not a it's not a crappy experience anymore. It's pretty smooth because people talk so much about it. But I think that the control switched.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Well, well, well, here's the thing: some organizations, some corporates are embracing it. Sadly, though, nine and a half years into Twitter, Twitter is nine and a half years old. Crazy. Sadly, so many have still got no idea where are the leads, where where are people talking about us, what are they saying? They don't engage with anybody, they don't listen to feedback comments or whatever. They're too busy with this broadcast mentality. Shoving, you know, if I keep pumping out content, you know, some of it will stick. But it won't stick because there's so much content now. We're overwhelmed with content. You know, every day, billions of messages. Read this, tweet this, like this, favorite that, watch this YouTube, check this out, do this. We've got no time. Time is the biggest commodity that there is because you can't get it back. When someone's on this, watching this for 20 minutes, half an hour, you don't get that time back. So if you're not adding value in your tweets, your posts, whatever you're doing, people will stop taking part in your stuff because time they don't get back no matter how rich they are.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

But that's very that is very true. I mean, I know that's a big news flash for a lot of people, but uh social media is not not about us. Just like, I mean, I think that's branding in general. Uh, my good friend Bruce Cherquel says, you know, your brand is not about you, your brand is about how it makes other people feel, you know. And um absolutely your brand is what other people say it is, not what you say it is. Right 100%. Exactly. Uh a good brand makes you feel good. Uh, a great brand makes you feel good about yourself. And social media allows the opportunity for you to effectively tell that story. Um, you you you you caught my attention when you said that so many brands, and I and I caught my attention because I get this question constantly. The number one question is uh nine years in, people are saying still saying, um, not I don't know how to use Twitter. Um, they simply say, Oh, I don't like Twitter. And I said, that's because you don't understand Twitter. And they immediately say, You're right. So it's a lack of knowledge. So I find myself more more times than none helping people know what they don't know that they don't know about social or about Twitter, rather. Um, but when people ask you, Mark, what is Twitter? How do you explain it to them?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Well, you know, well, okay, great question. And I get asked all the time. And the and the answer is it's not a tool, it's a communication platform. That's all it is. And it just happens to be high-tech and 21st century. You know, we were doing this 3,000 years ago in the caves, drawing stuff. Then it went mobile, then it went whatever technology is, okay? It's just word of mouth on steroids. That's what it is. But the gold mine, which no one seems to know about, or so few seem to know about, is the search, the ability to search Twitter for conversations about your brand, your business, your keywords, whatever you want, that is where the action is. Sadly, that's in a room over there. Most people on Twitter are in a room over there complaining. I've got half a follower, nothing's happening, I'm broadcasting, nothing's going on. Yeah, okay. All the business is over there. Yeah. So the talk that I give, or one of the talks that I give is called Twitter is not just about cheese sandwiches. I went down a road of a title, much like your book, okay? All right, and I just teach people or tell them the why. Why be on there? Why do it? What are you gonna get? Why have a policy, why have a strategy? What do you what is it all about? Forget how do you do it. Most of this social media stuff you can be taught in half an hour how to do. You know, someone said to me, Can you give me some Periscope training? I went, Really? It's two minutes, you download, you're good to go. There is no training. Okay, anyone who's selling Periscope getting the download, there is no course on Periscope to get it. It's easy. The skill is how to use it and why are you using it? And how does that uh you know incorporate with the overall strategy of your business, your goals? You know, I say to people, you know, why are you on social media? And they look at me like, What? Well, I don't know. Well, if you don't know why you're on it, no, you know, because everyone else is doing it, then how are you going to resource it properly? How do you know what resources you need? I could give you the greatest strategy if you've got some, you know, if you've got a 12-year-old doing it for five minutes a week. What's the strategy? You haven't got one. So, so who's doing it? Why are you doing it? What do you hope to gain from it? And lastly, what is success? No one seems to measure anything other than how many likes, favorites, or retweets they've got. Meaningless. None of those pay your mortgage, sales, newsletter sign-ups, website traffic. That's what you want to measure. So before you even get on social, you need to have the conversation. Why? What are we doing this for? What's the purpose? How does that fit into our business plan? And most businesses, you know what they do? They go, we need to be on social. Dave, get us on social. That's it. That's it. They're on, but they don't know what they're doing because they have no plan.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I there is zero plan, and and they're they're constantly throwing it on somebody's lap, whether it's the receptionist just because she's got a cool Instagram account of her and her girlfriends at the nightclub on the weekend, or you know, let's let's throw it on the marketing's department. Now, just no, marketing sounds like a sexy word, but marketing, that department could be 30 years old. And you talk Twitter with folks that have been working for a company for 30 years and it's fallen on deaf ears. It is, it is, it is um, you know, uh the the phrase that the also modern marketers like to stay away from, which is we've always done it this way. But I think you know that that's the biggest contention that that we work with on a daily basis. Well, we've never used it or we've been successful this long. Well, there's a changing in the tide. And I believe that this is just the beginning that it's all going. I think brands, large brands started to adapt it what about two years ago? Small, medium-sized businesses have been trying to jump on the wagon at least, or at least get in the race for the past two or three years. Now people are going, okay, it's relevant, but how does the bow tie convert to dollars? And it's not overnight. I run marathons with bow ties on. Why? Because marathons take a long time and it's that slow and steady race that we're working. But people say, where do I start? And I say, just get started. Just get in the race. Don't worry about how fast you're running, just get in the race. And I think the the the big default with with Twitter is that or the the the the void rather for brands is they just don't know. And if they could understand the power of search.twitter.com, if they could understand the power of social listening, if they could understand the fact that somebody somewhere is typing, I just pulled my back out and I need a chiropractor.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

And it's even better than that, geographically sensible, they're in your town, they're around the corner, they're saying this and it never stops. It's 24-7, it's Leeds City, Arizona, as I call it, and everyone's in the wrong room. Social media is a mindset, okay? It's not the tools. I very rarely, you know, people say to me, Mark, what are the best tools? It's not about the tools. You need one tool, Hoot, Sweet, or Tweet Deck. That's it. Okay, the rest of the stuff is gonna just give you a bit of insight. The mindset of why you're on there, how do you engage with people, how do you find conversations where you can add value, not sell stuff. Most people in this 21st century, they seem to have a thing, which is whatever we do, we've always got to be putting our website link in. Hi, website link. How are you doing? Website link. Thanks for everything's website link. I don't need to know your website link. Just talk to me like a human being, all right? And someone that's not a corporate, you know, got the line from the corporate as a human being, and when I'm ready to buy, I will remember you. You don't need to keep shoving your website link at me every single message. I got it.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yep, exactly. Brian McFarland just said, Do you want fries with that? I believe I believe Mark calls Mark calls those chips, Brian.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

But but this, but I I don't really know. We've grown up in a world where you know it's a tech, you know, it's battle of the eyeballs, I call it, okay? So you say so people think because I've only got your attention for three seconds, I've got to make the most of it. So I don't just say thank you anymore, I've got to say thank you. Here's our next thing, here's our website link, here's where you can find on every platform going, and you've got to incorporate it in a very quick message. It doesn't work. People don't need to know all that. Your job as a salesperson is to make you memorable so when people are ready to buy, they show up at your door. That's your job. Your job is to act like a human being, and the organizations that you've done great stuff, they've just acted like a normal human being, bit of empathy, bit of sympathy. How are you doing, Mark? Bit of chit-chat, bingo. And we all remember them and go, oh my god, well, they're amazing. A brand said thank you for doing something, it's like the greatest thing they've ever done. All they did was say thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

It's nuts. The ability to or the the scalability of the words thank you these days are ridiculous if brands just understand that. And I don't think it's just brands, I think it's individuals in general. Remember, social media is here to socialize. That's what we're here to do. That's why we utilize it, right? But we've got all these cool tools that keep us hyper crazy connected. But everyone's quick to push a message or um or their conversation out, but not quick to receive it, is what I found. And I think there's a big what it makes me crazy, I'll never understand that. Sharing somebody's content and them not reaching out. And saying, thanks, thumbs up, emoji, high five, something. I mean, I just believe people are being grossly negligent to want to and the and and audacious to want their content shared, but not to simply reciprocate someone sharing their content or or or thanking them.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Absolutely. People they they want to sort of, I have a sound, I have a lot of sayings. People know this. I have a saying for just about everything. People want to have a presence without being present. Okay? So they want to be everywhere, they want to automate everything, they want to be blasting all their content out everywhere, but not actually be there. They want to be doing the other stuff because they don't think this is important or valuable or necessary. I remember saying to one client, I said, Do you read any of the tweets of the people you follow? And they said, No. And I said, Why is that? And they said, Well, they're not really worth reading. And I said, Okay, do you think they're reading your stuff? Oh, definitely. I said, Why is that? Oh, because mine's really good stuff. No, no, it doesn't work like that. We need to get back more into giving, into supporting, into just saying thank you for doing the ordinary things now. When I say say thank you, I don't mean thank you, by the way, here's 20% off next week's purchase. That's not a thank you. That's a veiled sales message. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about just a thank you. You know, when you get that phone call and they say, Oh, Sebastian, we just want to thank you for being our bestest customer ever. And you're about to go, oh, that's great. And then they go, by the way, 20% off vote, you know, iPads this week. And you go, Oh, really? I don't want an iPad. All you wanted was the thank you. Finished. That's the bit that's gone wrong. Everyone's selling all the time. You don't just show up, be nice, be friendly, be sociable, and the magic will happen when people are ready to buy from you.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

They know when they're gonna buy. They get big, big, big, big boy and big girl decisions, and they know exactly when they're gonna buy. It's a matter of who they're gonna do business with in this day and age with the ability to engage with brands and make an emotional connection before making a buying decision. It reminds you of a story um uh Gary V told me probably three years ago, and that was um he had his chief caring officer, uh, CCO, right? Those don't exist yet, but he believes that'll be an integral part of the C-suite very soon. But in any event, he's got one for Wine Library TV. And he said, let's go to this customer's place in these sizable orders of wine. I'm gonna have my CCO get on this and start doing some research about this guy. Found out the guy's a huge Chicago Bears fan, huge Jay Cutler uh fan. Uh, and he said, let's go find a signed jersey and let's send it to this guy. And they that's exactly what they did. They found around eBay, sent it to the guy, blindsided him out of nowhere. He picked up the phone, said, I just got this jersey. I'm a customer of yours, and I can guarantee you, Gary, I will never do business with anybody ever again. I will never buy wine from anybody else. You've got my business for the rest of my life. And that was a proactive, just because an order came in, it was kind of a thank you note, but it wasn't for a specific order type deal. If we can think proactively as brands and think, you know, I had a friend that went on a job interview last week and they said the first, I said, Dub, so what's the what what what are the next steps? And they said, Well, I'm gonna be coming back for a second interview, and I've got a project that they're assigning me in between all that. But the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna sit down and write a handwritten thank you note for the president's time and drop it in the mail tomorrow morning. These are the things that are absolutely blowing people's minds these days and brands aren't understanding. Going back to the basics and then tying social into this whole equation, I think is is is even more powerful.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Sebastian, I want to ask you a question and everyone else that's watching in the in the community side, okay? Tell me honestly, in the years that you've been on Twitter, has anyone that you've ever done business with, you've gone to buy a product, you've gone to buy a service, has anyone ever asked you, are you on Twitter? Ever? Ever? As far as far as that who who I've done business with, like you're gonna check into a hotel, you're gonna buy a product, you're gonna buy a service, you're gonna buy something. Has that company ever or anyone ever experienced a company where on the form it says give me your Twitter name, or they've asked you, are you on Twitter? Ever? I've been on several addresses never, zero, ever. No, they want their email address though. They want your email address, but you know what? Email address does not give you insight into a customer. Twitter gives you insight into a customer because it'll tell you they've been married, promoted, demoted, death, funerals, kids growing up, they're going on holiday, good news, bad news, stuff they're interested in. That is gold dust for marketers. Gold dust. Because then you get the Chicago Bears story. You find out about him, you realize what they're interested in. I'll tell you a funny thing, Sebastian. Okay, every Christmas, okay, every Christmas I get wine sent to me. Okay, I don't drink. Every Christmas I get ham sent to me. I'm Jewish, I don't eat it. Okay. If someone sent me a bag of Harry Bow Tang Fastics for 49p, about a dollar, because I'm talking about them all the time, I would be their greatest customer forever. But they never do because no one ever checks or decides to check what I'm talking about could be of value to their business. It's crazy. People spend so much time trying to find new customers. Just look at the ones you've already got. They should be your greatest advocates. They've already bought your stuff, presumably they've had a good experience. Now, what then happens is you ignore them for the year, right? You've bought the product. The only next time you hear from them renewal or something's worn out and you need to buy another one. That's it. What happens in between? You never hear from anybody other than I want to sell you something else. Wouldn't it be nice if you know I bought a car, they sent me a birthday, you know, Twitter, happy birthday, Mark. How was your holiday mark? Great, it takes 10 seconds, but they keep wanting to find new people. Stick with what you got as well. Look at those people.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I found in the in the uh in the luxury car I had did a few experiences in the past. I bought a Mercedes, I still get a birthday card from the Mercedes dealership in Southern California and I'm in Miami. But the thank you, the birthday cards are still going out. The follow-up cards, happy new year. I'm not a Mercedes owner any longer, um, but they still follow up with me. Uh, again, and this was before really social media had started to take off. So I think some businesses have adapted the common, you know, the common sense of normal manners. Um, but now with social media being in the mix, we have the intel to know how we can thank people and how we can communicate them with them. So let's try let's transition real quick here because we're talking about brands adapting to Twitter. And let's go a little bit deeper into the rabbit hole because brands are not wrapping their head around Twitter, but they will because you have to catch up or you just get left out. So Twitter is enough in itself for brands to wrap themselves around. And then about six months ago, we've got this little um animal called a mere cat pop up on the on the scene. And shortly thereafter, um, a periscope wasn't the only thing on a submarine. Um, and now we've got the ability to live stream, chat, and communicate with people on this incredible platform, interactive platform called Blab. Oh my goodness, shortness of breath by brands just just just thinking about the live streaming. How do you dumb it all down, make sense of Twitter, make sense of this new live streaming technology, and still continue to run your business and effectively market yourself?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

And therein therein lies the $64 million question. So, my answer to all of these brands, to any business, before you start going anywhere, step back, get yourself into a room, turn off your BlackBoy or your iPhone, okay? And start to think about what are the goals of the business? What are you all about? What is your message? What is your vision? Why do people buy from you? What is it all about? You work that stuff out. What is your marketing plan for the year for the next two years? What are the resources you have? Once you've done that, then you start to get a picture will emerge, okay, of the resources you have, where you need to go. Because the next thing is, where are your customers? It's all right going to all these platforms, but if none of your customers are there because either the demographic, the age, the whatever, then your resources are in the wrong place. Secondly, if what you're doing is not giving you any results in line with your goals, what are you doing? Okay, so that's the next step. And then the next step is once you then decide where you need to go, maybe it's Blab because of whatever you want to do there. Maybe it's Periscope, maybe it's Mika, maybe it's Twitter, maybe it's Facebook. But the answer is you can't be everywhere. Unless you are Coca-Cola with 30,000 staff and a three billion dollar budget, you can't be everywhere. You need to dedicate or really, you know, devote yourself to really own one place and be really amazing on it. Not mediocre everywhere. That's what most people do. Now, live streaming has opened up a huge opportunity, particularly for small businesses. Why? Because this is not about budget anymore. You can be live streaming from your kitchen in your underpants to a global worldwide audience for pretty much no money. This isn't how much money you've got. So the opportunity is there for them, and the opportunity for corporates is there as well to be more human, to show us stuff that we can't normally see. That is what is the opportunity. But also the two biggest factors, particularly with Periscope, one, it's integrated through Twitter. So whatever you do, the headline goes into the Twitter universe so people can see it. And two, the fact that people can engage. What's so incredible about Blab is that people are writing comments. We can see them, we can get them in a seat, we can answer the questions. That's what's so different. This is not YouTube, folks. If you like YouTube and you want YouTube, go to YouTube. People always say, Oh, wouldn't it be great if this was more like YouTube? No, there is YouTube. This is not YouTube. Okay, same with Periscope. I there's certain things I don't want Periscope to do because you do that somewhere else. This is not edited, this is live, this is not a Hollywood production. Okay, this is something that allows anybody. Look, I'm speaking to you, you're in Miami, I'm in North London. It's incredible. The technology is there, folks, if people want to grab it and run with it.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

I think it's you know, it's another just another tool to have in a brand's arsenal, solarpreneur, entrepreneur, whatever you are, to be able to provide value. People ask me, what is this show all about? This show is to help you know what you don't know that you don't know. I have access to to individuals and people that I've met over the course of the past five or six years that I've either met in an event, met in a blab room as of recent, where you and I first met. Um I was told by you, by my long-term mentor and friend Damien Zamora, from the past 15 years I've known him, he told me about you. So, and I'm and I'm the one that helps him fully wrap his head around social media and where it's all at and and etc. So it's crazy how the the tide kind of turns there where we're learning different things from different people that have been in our lives forever, that have been in our lives for a very, very short time.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Um, but but here's the funny thing, Sebastian. Okay, here's the funny thing, okay? If your business is shit, social media won't save it. It just lets people know quicker how rubbish you are. Okay, sure. But if your business is great, then why can't you have the CEO in one box, marketing in another box, and your customers down the side by invitation, your special customers, yeah? You get them in the hot seat to ask the CEO, the vision, the ideas, give you some thoughts on the new products or services. That's what this is about. Not showing you stuff that is really boring, edited, that is, you know, very sterile. You know, here's something that's really stupid that no one really cares about. Get the people in the boxes to talk about stuff and get your customers in line with you to listen to it. Your greatest products and services often will come from ideas from the people who are using your products.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yes, oh a hundred percent. 100%. And I I like to say exactly, and I'm I'm right in line with your line of thinking. You know, if your product sucks, social media isn't going to fix it. Um, and and that's what people fail to realize as well. When they have a core fundamental problem with their business or their brand, and then they try to think that social media may change all that. I mean, again, how many absolute scenarios have we seen that social media truly does suck because a big brand said, hey, let's try to launch this campaign and engage our following? I think McDonald's did my McDonald's story, and it was just an absolute circus. Um, so as far as taking a step back, even well-established brands, even the ones with the big budgets, have to take a step back and say, wait a second here, because once these floodgates are open, um, it could, you know, we're gonna spend more on unscrewing this thing than we are with um with putting it all together.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

And yeah, and you know what you know what the issue there is, I'll tell you exactly what the problem is there. Big brands want to control the message, they don't like social because they can't control it. They launch a ask the CEO a question thing. Here's the hashtag, and they can't control what comes in. All right, that's the point. But you know what? You need to learn how to deal with that. As I call it, don't let a hashtag become a bash tag. Okay, there are ways to deal with this stuff, all right? But you need to change the mindset of control. Your brand is no longer controlling stuff. If you invite your customers in, some of them won't like you, some of them will slag you off. But you know what? There are two types of customers. One is the people that just disappear and never buy from you, talk for you ever again. And two, the people that complain. And if you get hold of the people that complain and you fix their complaint and you deal with it, you often create the greatest advocate of all time.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

100%. If brands just underage, especially like restaurants, you know, if somebody complains they had a bad experience, invite them back and feed them for free until they're happy. I guarantee those will end up being your long-term customers. Every now and then you're gonna get a mooch up in that mix and you got to shake them, you know, off the whole free meal program. But some of them genuinely want to give your brand a shot because they like what you're doing. What I'm experiencing a lot more these days are large restaurant chains or ones that have become chains, as they've grown, their quality has dipped. And that is something that I will never ever understand. And that is affecting them and backfires on the social media side. You're looking, you're used to going to your local favorite spot for a steak, and now the steak is a little well done, you're a little perturbed about it, and now you're talking about on social media. Now they've got two problems. Well, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

The number of people now again, give me a yes or no in the audience, okay? Who here has complained on social media before they have complained to the restaurant manager? Okay, I have absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Why I always try to get the restaurant manager's name first, then I go complain, then I go find the manager.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

And because you typically get a much better, quicker, faster response because they know that suddenly it's not a private conversation. Suddenly you've got 30,000 people, you've got the Twitter universe taking part. Okay, and my point though is that the customer care bar, particularly in the UK, I think in the US is higher. In the UK, the customer care bar is here. Most businesses in the UK operate as near to that as possible. I call it the minimum we can get away with. That's where they operate, and that's the tragedy. Because all they've got to do occasionally is just do a little bit of something a little bit different, and you get a wow moment. And when you get a wow moment, what does a customer do? They take photos of it, they tell everyone. So, as much as people want to beat up brands, I think they also want to congratulate them and give them a round of applause and get the message out. Brands just need to do something to encourage that, and most of the time they do vodka, nothing. That's the tragedy.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Well, I think they're just putting, I think too many brands put social in the back seat. It's just an afterthought. It's something like, hey, did you get around to that Facebook thingy this week? Or did we respond? I will never understand a brand. What did I do? I went and had lunch in a new diner that opened up here in town, and I took pictures of the place. You would have thought they hired me. I went there and had lunch, put together a collage that said the place looks dynamite, the food, eh, the cook line look like a bunch of paroles, and uh the waitress wasn't too friendly. Um, but I didn't mention all that on social media, but I just posted the picture, and their PR firm went in and liked the picture. So you went in to the picture, you're already keyboard open, all ready to go. You click like and you can't even say, thank you so much for a coming in and spending money in our business, and B, thank you for being our cameo marketer while you were here. So you came in, you gave us money for you to create content for us, and we can't even say thank you. And that is what will put a business out of a brand. And you know what, Sebastian?

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Here's the cranker businesses spend billions of dollars, Super Bowl ads, radio, TV, newspapers, pushing this message to people who are not listening. Then in the other room, they have all of us that are for free advocating about our experience, photos, text, all sorts of things, and they ignore us. We are our their greatest sales team, and they ignore us because they're trying to push a message to people who aren't listening. I don't get it. I don't understand that approach.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

I really don't. Volunteer army is what I've heard it referred to before, and it just seems to be that uh we're not grasping that. So, hey, we got a lot of people still, I think people joining us, people come in and out of this room. I see, I just got my I just got an understanding of what the two numbers mean at the top. It means the total number of people that have come through and the people that are actively in here. So it looks like we got about a 25 active people. We've seen some popular um faces pop up in here. Mark, I know you're familiar with. I think uh our uh Brian Fanzo was in here. I hope he's still in here mingling around. Periscope Queen's in the house, Damien Zamora's in the house, uh Brian McFarlane. Thanks so much, guys, uh, for joining you. Uh, real quick station identification. My name's Sebastian Rusk, and I'm a social media strategist. I wrote a book called Social Media Sucks. That's it right there. And uh it does if you don't know what you're doing. This show is all about providing value. It's about tapping into my network to be able to get as many guests that I know that know way more than I do, that are way smarter than me, to hop on the show while I throw on a bow tie for an hour or so and we have a conversation and help you better understand what you don't know that you don't know. Hey, you may be watching this replay, you may be listening to the podcast on iTunes, or you may be reading this blog post on my website. Either way, thank you for being here because guess what? Without you guys, the show wouldn't happen. Well, it it would, but it'd be a little awkward. So big uh big thanks again, uh Mark, for for being here and hanging out. So I didn't take it. I love it. Thanks, man. I uh I want to take some uh some questions. I'm sure people have. A few people asked me questions uh uh a few minutes ago, um, and we'll we'll get into that. I want to ask one more thing, um, and that is um where did the tag tribes um movement start and where did the light go off for you and where has it grown? I know the Facebook group is an upwards of 2,000 plus people now. What's it all about?

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Okay, so I'm all about three things or four things, but let's say three things, three C's, okay? Firstly, social media, you need to be adding great content. Most people are just adding noise, and you're gonna get you in with it. So it's great content. But even if you are adding great content, you need to do it with other people. It's tough on your own, it's impossible on your own. So you need a bit of a community around you to help you, to support you, to look out for you. And thirdly, when you've then built this community, you collaborate with them, you refer each other, you help each other. So, about I don't know, two months ago now, I set up this thing called Tag Tribes. It is an online support community for people on Periscope. We don't sell to each other, we're very strict with the spam in the site. I've seen too many Facebook uh groups ruined by people just again selling, selling, you don't need to sell anything. Show up, support, look out for each other, help each other, and people will then get to know you and support you. And you know what? When you then need people showing up for you, they show up for you and all sorts of things, and then you refer and you collaborate. That's how I started it. We've got over 2,000 in there now. It's a great place, people are enjoying it, and I'm very grateful because it's a team game. I can't do it on my own. I might lead it, I might give it the vision, but my job is to help other people achieve what they want, to help other people shine, to help other people get what they want from social media. And the more that I do, the more they join and the more they're interested.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Well, it's very clear that tag tribes is an effective movement. Um, I'll I'll be the first, and I'm sure you've had it happen several times, to thank you for going into this selflessly by knowing that if I just create a community that can provide value, we're all gonna grow. There's enough to go around. You don't hate listen, hashtag don't pitch me, bro. If you like my bow tie and you like how I throw it down. I guarantee you you're gonna Google me, find me, track me down, and figure out what I do, and we'll figure it out from there. I don't need to tell you to click on a link, give me your email address, etc. Yeah, I want to I want to gravitate people towards me. I don't want to hope that I'm, you know, somebody told me a long time ago, Mark, and I don't know if you agree with me on this, but if you want to track the masses, you need to go to where the masses are at and direct them to where you want them to be. And social media really affords us the opportunity to be able to.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Well, it does, but sadly, you know, I still need to educate people. Sadly, people, you know, still show up. Their first message is hi, here's my book, here's my course, here's my this, here's my that. And I'm like, no, you don't need to do that. I know why you want to do that, because you think if you blast everyone, everyone's gonna take notice and buy your stuff. It doesn't work, folks. And the people and I often say, you know, I write, you know, I write a vision statement for the group and I write stuff, and I say, if you have just joined this group to blast everyone with your stuff, you are in the wrong group. This will not work for you here. Okay. If you show up though, on a regular basis in time, people get to know, like, and trust you. And then you know what? They will refer and recommend you. That's what you want.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Yeah, when you get people that that that that know, like, and trust you. I wrote a whole chapter in my book on how no like and trust, an old adage that's always been around, but how it now applies to social media. No like and trust. Once you can do that, you you can then build a community that you can know, I'll be as cliche and cheesy as I can get. We, but then you then have a community that you can motivate, differentiate, and and and um, and uh motivate, differentiate. And um uh what's the third one? Anyway, about providing value is the third one. Somebody else knows that here. Motivate, that's gonna drive me crazy. Anyway, let's get to our first uh uh uh guest that hop on the hot seat here. Mark Meyer, what's happening, bro?

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Hey guys, I just wanted to jump in. I think it's important to know that um you know what brands miss is they think that um just jumping in, all right, get in, get out, there's no they don't understand how hard this is, right? They don't understand the work that it takes. You know, we talk about building value, we talk about building trust, but the incredible amount of work that goes into doing that is is more than just a one-off. And and and we've said this a number of years ago, but social isn't a campaign, right? You you're in, you stay in. But you and so I think that sometimes brands have this tendency to create social media as a campaign, as a one-off. You know, when the campaign's over, so is social. And so, and a lot of times they try to um they they try to insert round pegs into square holes, and and what happens is right, that it completely misses the mark. And so then they it then what happens is they say social doesn't work, and and they move on, right? And so they don't understand the the value because they can't see it right off. And so I think that uh, and this happens for a lot of people, whether it's at the brand level or at the SMB level, is that they walk away with a with a bad taste or uh or the notion that they think that it didn't work and it won't work, but they don't understand how hard it is to get it going. But once you do, once you're able to sustain it, then then there's there's gold at the end of that rainbow. But I tell people you have to give it six months, you have to give it a year. You if you think it's gonna happen in the first month, you're crazy. Am I right or am I wrong?

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Sebastian and Mark and everyone else that's watching, okay? Give me a thumbs up or a yes or whatever, okay. Has anyone ever said to you social media doesn't work for our type of business? Has anyone ever said that to you? Oh, yeah. Our type of business. What business are you in? It works for every business. It just won't work for you because you're trying to be different. Don't be different, just be human. It's all this automation and they don't want to engage or reply. Or as you just said, Mom, you know, they do a campaign, they get busy, they shout. They think if they shout a lot, really a lot, then everyone's gonna take notice because they're a brand. They need to wake up. It doesn't work like the rules have changed and they're playing in a different game.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Is that right, Sebastian? It 100% is, and it's you know, it's social media starts before the before the campaign, during the campaign, and after the campaign. The magic with social media really starts after the campaign. Advertising and marketing get the customer through the door, social media keeps them there. Why? Because the conversation allows you to continue it. I was involved with a campaign here for Miami Beach turning uh 100 this year uh for the whole centennial celebration. It was a week-long celebration, ended with the concert and on the beach, and it was just full blown for a week long uh to celebrate Miami Beach being 100 years old. Well, that campaign is still taking place throughout the year. Why? Because they're celebrating all year long. So every campaign the city of Miami Beach has done was tied to Miami Beach 100. And they built a substantial following uh over the course of not just the initial part in January, but being able to continue that process on here. Now the city of Miami Beach has a very core niche social network in addition to the city of Miami, where they don't have to deal with this place is flooding, when's the construction going to be done, and I'm sick of all the drunk tours. They don't have to deal with all that. They deal with the people that want to know about what's taking place and are genuinely interested in the city of Miami Beach. And I think that's an incredible example because they brought us on to for the activation of the event to be able to do the live social coverage for it. And then I thought, well, you're building, I mean, we got like close to 10 plus thousand followers now on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. What are you gonna do with them now? And they that's when they explain, well, we've got several events throughout the year. So brands can learn a lot from that. So if you're doing a grand opening of your business um and you were creating content before that, during that, and after that, you're having a different conversation with the people that went to the grand opening versus the people that did not go to the grand opening, and that you know who those people are if you've got the correct uh things in place to be able to recognize that.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Absolutely. And you know, I've just seen a question. Can I just take one of the questions that I've just seen, Sebastian? 100%. Simon has just asked, it depends on what business you run. A bank would have a much harder time on social than other businesses. Simon, I disagree, and I'll tell you why I disagree, okay? Banks, yes, they have the financial services in the UK. I'm sure there might be something in the US about the disclaimers of, you know, I love those adverts where the disclaimer at the end is longer than the advert, okay, for the product. Okay. So, yeah, banks have that issue. But here's the thing: banks don't need to give advice. I don't want to get advice, I don't want to know stuff on Twitter. They shouldn't be telling me about mortgage rates and bank stuff on Twitter. They should just be talking to me like a human being, which is how they're not when you go to the brand. Has anyone noticed, particularly in the UK? I did a tweet yesterday. Why do banks spend all their money to look not like a bank? Okay, they now want to look like a travel agency. Have you noticed? The screens are they don't want to look why do they not want to look like a bank? It's a bank. You give money, you do stuff, but because people have a bad perception of banks, quite rightly so, they're awful. So there is the opportunity for a bank to be human, to be friendly, to not just turn up when you want to mortgage or an overdraft. And there is the opportunity. Yes, don't give advice. I get that, Financial Services Act, but you can just talk to your customers and be friendly with them. That is open for every organization.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

It really is. And you know, airlines have been the first to adapt to it. And of course, their customer service. I mean, I can't tell you last time I've changed a flight by picking up the telephone. I don't need to. I can do it via Twitter. Um, and I think a lot more brand, I think they're just scared of it, Mark. I think that's they're just absolutely, you know, petrified with what are they gonna say about me? And they when they realize that they're already saying something about me versus what are they gonna say about me, when that becomes a priority, then I think that that the the silos of of confusion will be will be dropped because people are going, wait a second, they're already talking about us, let's get in the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Hey, I let me tell you guys this good story. So I was in Chicago eating at a and I won't name the restaurant because that's just not fair, but but the customer experience was awful, right? And there was there were issues with the food, service was great. Um, I told the bartender about it. Uh, manager never came over, which kind of bothered me, right? So I go back to Twitter, this particular restaurant, a national chain, is following me. So I DM them. Uh I use the back channel for Twitter. I say, hey, you know what? You guys are supposed to have a reputation for tremendous customer service, and you did, but where you didn't deliver was on the meal. And so two days go by, I don't get a response, but then um I do get one. They say, All right, uh, give us your phone number, somebody will reach out to you. A week later, somebody does, they leave a message, I call back, they're not there, I call back again, they're not there. And then three times in a row, I call back. I go back to Twitter, I say, Hey, a customer shouldn't have to work that hard. You know, when when we're talking about, you know, an issue with your with your restaurant where it's all predicated on the quality of the food and the service. Um, eventually they do reach out to me again through Twitter, and long story short, they say, come back in, we'll make sure it's right the next time around. But you know, I don't know if I was it, you know, I had to use Twitter because the traditional means didn't work, and eventually we were able to resolve it to a certain degree. And you know, so I'm I'm kind of ambivalent, but I'm you know, I'm almost wondering, you know, what I would have would have done without Twitter, you know, and and I I think that you know, from a customer service standpoint, what a lot of brands and a lot of businesses starting to realize is it is a back channel, and we've always said this is that, and you and you asked it both of you yourselves, is that is how many times do we we complain about a business on Twitter, but what we didn't answer is how many times did that business respond to that complaint?

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Right? But but here's here here's the thing that I think is the most important, okay, is that a lot of businesses use Twitter particularly, but it's just another layer of them avoiding getting hold of you and talking to you. They don't actually do anything, they just say, How many times have people heard thanks for contacting us on Twitter? Here's our 0800 phone number. What's that about? Okay, it's not now go somewhere else, it's I'm here, can you please deal with me in this place unless it's so mega huge that the CEO needs to be involved, and then we go private and we get busy with the emails. But other than that, and that comes down to the mandate. So many businesses don't give their staff a proper mandate of what they can say, how they can help, when it's gone too far, when they need to escalate, when the shit's really at the fan, what they need to do. So ultimately, the customer care channel through Twitter ends up as just another layer of getting nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Mark, I wonder how many, um, how many restaurants have governance and policies in place for that. I mean, we talk about that at at you know at Fortune 500 levels, but what about governance and policy on a restaurant level? And what and and how do you how do you triage something like that?

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Well, exactly. And I I say all the time, you know, I do a lot of stuff, you know, often for for case studies that I then present a talk or whatever, and I'm interested in how they've handled certain things. And I give the good and the bad. There are some organizations who have responded really well, some who have just been awful, okay, for whatever reason. And and it just highlights to me what their training has been, perhaps their guidelines, they have no guidelines, they're nervous about what to say. Um, and some of the funniest things come out in IC saw one company who there was a conversation going on between the company and a disgruntled customer, and then of course, because it's on Twitter, other people join in. And they were telling other people they can they stop joining in, they will block them on social because that's not how it's done. And it's like, no, you don't get this platform. You don't understand it's in our rules. We don't, if you're not part of the conversation, we don't want to talk to you. No.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Exactly. Well, we are uh thanks so much, Mark. Those are all uh all great questions, and uh thanks for contributing to the conversation. Come back soon, will you? Absolutely, guys. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

It was fun. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Well, hey, Mark, um, we're we're reaching about the hour mark here, and um, I know that uh you love porn value and you can answer questions here, but I want to respect your time. And uh we've had a very interactive conversation. I've I I've uh I've seen here in the comments section. And uh uh Damien, uh, thanks so much for joining us, brother. You said he's he's going back to work. You've been hanging on Blab all day. So thank you so much, uh Mark, for your time, for your insight, for your intel on what's going on with this. I believe our conversation um could could continue for for hours, if not days, uh, on this subject. So uh let's definitely do it again uh sometime soon. And um uh I look forward to continuing to. I'm gonna drop a link in here for Tag Tribes, the Tags Tribe group on Facebook. Go ahead and click there, guys. Um, be part of this community, jump in. If you've got a blab, you can get on there, start having conversations, ask these same type of questions. We're gonna be covering this type of content um as a community. Mark, correct me if I'm wrong, but when we have questions, if I get stuck on something, I'm going right to this group because that's what they're there for, and then we're able to reciprocate that information.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Absolutely. As I said, community, support each other, help each other, but refer each other. There is business opportunities there. I get people who ask me, can you do this? Can you help with that? And I see opportunities. I then feed it in. Other people should feed that in as well. And the more you refer others, advocate for others, the more people refer and advocate for you.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

100%. We got a lot of people requesting a boom uh here, Mark.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Okay, just for Damien, boom in the house. There you go, Damien.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Hey, I gotta get how's it go?

unknown 58:38

Boom!

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Hey, thanks a ton again for uh for being here, Mark. Uh, your your your great energy. I think everyone might need a nap after both of us on live streams. Listen, Sebastian, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

And again, yes, let's do this again real soon.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

I really enjoyed it. Let's do it, brother. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Well, that's it for the, I believe, the 14th episode of social b of the social media suck show. We moved to several different platforms because this stuff starts growing so quick. Maybe we found our home, at least for now here at Blab. If you're watching the replay on YouTube, maybe you're reading the blog post on my website, which is Sebastianrusk.com. I'll drop a link right here. I'd love to stay in touch with you guys. If I can ask any, answer any questions, if we have a resource for you pertaining to anything pertaining to social media, buzz. I love to talk about social media. I like to wear bow ties. I can teach you how to wear a bow tie. Please hit me up, drop me a tweet. My email address is srusk, s r u s k at socialbuzztv.com. I'm signing off from our studio here, which pretty much means my office in beautiful Miami. I'm Sebastian Rusk. We'll see you next time for the social media suck show. Bye, guys.