Helping Men Heal Subconscious Trauma - Elise Michaels

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is the Beyond the Story Podcast, a show that goes way beyond the story. And now, Sebastian Frost.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Hi, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Thanks for being here. It it feels uh I always say thanks for being on the show, but you're physically here, which is which is rare after, well, the past couple years of very interesting times in our in our world. So uh you and I met on LinkedIn. It's a great place to meet people. Great place to meet people. You know why I like LinkedIn? LinkedIn's great because people are there to find opportunity and meet new people and make new connections, not like the rest of the noise that's out there. You really never know. I mean, I couldn't imagine what it's like to be a female on social media. I have a daughter, so I get like a general idea and I've had to like prep her. Um, but um yeah, great, great to finally meet you in real life. Hashtag IRL.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Yeah. No, it was really exciting when you invited me here uh to your studio that's not in your basement.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Um I was just saying that this morning. I'm like, we've never met formally.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

We didn't even really talk on social media. You're just like, hey, want to come to my podcast that's in my studio? And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

This could be like some shack down in the Everglades. Yeah. She's like, sure, I'll see you then. Um well, thank you for trusting me. And I'm so glad you're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

We need to film this in case.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

The murder.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah. So um, and then I started digging a little bit about what you do, and I started to follow you elsewhere, uh, other than than LinkedIn. I reached out a couple times, but you're a busy girl. So sorry about that. It took me to say, hey, look at me over here. The podcast stuff always usually, you know, creates some interest of a conversation. But I started to look at some of the work that you're doing with men, and I thought, wow, this is great. I mean, most men wouldn't be like, I'm not gonna have some girl coach me about what I need to do about other girls. Most most men would not think like that. And I know my group of friends would you know thoroughly harass me for it, but I'm the guy that would totally be open to the type of work that you do. So let's back up a little bit. Let's help people better understand uh a little bit about you and your story and what really brought you to present day and what you're doing right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, so I love that little synopsis you just gave. That's like my TikTok community, some people on TikTok. Because, like you said, there's different people.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

You're pissing people off left and right over there.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Different people on social media, and LinkedIn is like the most positive, accepting place, almost like in a fake way. And um, then you know you go to Instagram and Facebook, which is still a little bit more positive because it's still tied to your identity. And TikTok is just a horrible, horrible place because you don't have anything tied to your identity, and people just say whatever they want.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Um, you go from like without thinking about it. Well, you go from like seeing an amazing lasagna recipe to some chick that's about to like, you know, just cry your eyes out to you know, something really uplifting and motivating, and then something that completely triggers you. So and then you just rinse and repeat that cycle of but most popular social media platform out there.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, exactly. So you you should be on it for sure. Um, and you can grow really fast. So anyway, just to give a synopsis, um, I'm not like this this, I'll just start from the worst. I'm not a man hater trying to change men. I'm not trying to make men into pussies, I'm not um, you know, making men weak and all this stuff. Uh, I became a men's mental health coach during the pandemic because I quit my job and I wanted to help people with mental health. And I was originally trying to coach women, but as I posted my material on LinkedIn, it was only men who reached out to me. And that's just when I realized that men didn't have a lot of support when it came to mental health. And the more I, you know, I was like, I don't, I don't, I'm not trying to teach men how to be men. I don't know how to do that, right? I don't have balls, I don't have any of that, you know. I don't, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Well, I mean, it's 2020.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm letting it out there. I'm not I I don't have balls, okay? You don't have to pretend like I have balls.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

I'm not gonna be a hypothetical ones, that's for sure, though. I mean, to be working with men, you've got to have some form of, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

No, but so my thing was, well, I understand pain and I understand the pain that I went through, and I know that I want to help people save time, unlike I, you know, like save time if you can overcome that in a shortened period of time, I'm gonna teach that. And so I'm gonna ended up working out where I can teach those methods, and then as I'm working with men, I'm understanding what they're going through, I'm understanding their perspectives. And uh, I just fell in love with it. Um I'm a hundred percent in it. Like it's every day that's my mission is to really help men um overcome the societal pressures that they've been put upon to understand their emotions, their attachment styles, their core values, their passions, so they avoid the toxic relationship, so they avoid um, you know, a lot of things that men then have to struggle with that society's pinned against them, like the unfair judicial system when it comes to divorce and custody and things like that, you know, like because there are good men out there who are feeling very shafted because of, you know, just un unfavorable circumstances. So if we can help this generation of men, we can change how the next generation of men goes through life.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Don't you think that they, you know, and I grant that happens. There's some unfortunate circumstances and you get divorced and you get the shit end of the stick. I I I understand all that, but at a certain point, you you've got to address the elephant in the room, which is, you know, these are the choices that I decided to make in my life.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Well, absolutely. And my goal is to make sure you don't make those choices. Don't get in the fucked up situation when you are. So let's get in, let's take inventory podcast. Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

No, you're good to go. We're good to go. This is uh not safe for work. Um turn it up, man. So you you're you're evaluating what what took place, identifying the challenge, what went wrong on here, and how do we how do we course correct? So some of so what are some of the reasons because I in my experience, I've been I've been I'm single as book, as I would say, in my comedy bit for a minute, and I I have been for by design, because I decided that I'm going to figure as much of this out before we bring another human being into this circus here. Let's let's sort a couple things out. And that's gonna take as long as it's gonna take. I don't think there's any different time frame. And I think that um I don't know that being digitally connected is helping the process of us having more human connection. Um, online dating is a less than pleasurable experience. Um less than it's pain, it's it's quite painful. And like you and I were talking before uh the interview here, I I just don't want to explain myself to 12 people every single day and ask what their favorite fucking color is. I have zero.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Is that the internet or you just talking to 12 different people because you're not narrowing down your choices?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Well, hey, listen, if you got those relentless boundaries, then you can know, you know, it's automatically like I'm a no-go on like I did check plus my daughter's raised out of the house, I'm an empty nester. I have zero desire to help to procreate and have babies with you. Zero. So if that's your deal, then we just need to have a conversation right at the gate because I don't want to um, I don't want to let you down. However, I think there's some other blank Sebastian-like demographics out there, right? Single mom, kids are raised, no, no desire for so it's more of um that that's kind of what I'm looking for. And there's not a big selection of that. There's a gigantic selection of I want to white picket fence, of let's have baby. I want someday.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Right, but want children. So I'm just gonna dive into this with you right away because I think a lot of people get I'm gonna move your mic up a hair there. They get messed up on this, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Um So I brought her in.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

We think that we have we think that when we apply standards and boundaries and values, and we're like, oh my God, I'm narrowing down the pool of availability to me. Like there's there's just not as many people for this, right? Chicks don't dig this type of guy. But you're if you're looking for a person to spend your life with or have a relationship with, the availability isn't everyone for you anyway, right? All you're doing is making it easier for yourself to find that person and align with that person. Like just because there's less people, it doesn't actually mean there's less people for you because there's only one person for you anyway. You're just making it easier. You're in your you're feeling a lack when really you should be feeling in abundance. Oh, this is great. I'm narrowing down my pool. It's gonna make it easier to find that woman who um, you know, doesn't want any more kids. She's adventurous, she's this, she's that, she's this, she's that. And now she's gonna see me because I'm not wasting my time in this fucking pile over here that I think I should be wasting my time in to validate myself as a man because I want all this pussy or whatever society has told me that I want or need.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Okay. That makes sense. I dig that. Well, I mean, I'm I'm totally I'm 43. I feel 23, 43, and uh at my ripe age of 43, I feel like um I'm just becoming more aware. That's all. More aware of what I'm in really dialing in. Because I found myself, and I think a lot of times in relationships, we'll do that. We we meet a girl, especially guys meet a girl or girls, meet a guy, and we're just head over heels, and we just go into this, just guns blazing, and then everything blows up in your face, and you're like, what happened? I don't know. It's that, you know, that slow and steady process of just getting to know somebody. I mean, is it uncommon to just meet somebody and be friends with them and build a human-to-human relationship and allow any type of attraction to grow within that? Because that's what I foresee.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

I'm not a relationship expert, but I I think that you're right with your, you know, first assumption that a lot of people show up and we get these fantastical ideas, right? Because there's a there's a chemical overload and and we just we want to, I think humans naturally want to love, right? Spiritually, whatever you are, you say like God is love, right? It's just our natural inclination to want to love in different aspects and regards. And we live out of a lack mentality, right? So we think that only certain people we can give our love to, only certain ways we can give our love out. So if you're holding back a lot, and I know I'm going into like a totally different avenue than you probably thought I would, right? Um, but if you have a lot of energy, a lot of love to give, a lot of whatever to give, and you haven't found that person, of course you're gonna use whatever person you find first who's kind of good or kind of aligns as the vessel to channel your love through, even if they don't deserve it. But if you're not living in a lack mentality like I can get love wherever and I can give love wherever, you know, you don't jump to that right away because your your love is pouring out through whatever you do, your purpose, your passion, your mission, whatever. And you're like, hey, like I really like this person. Um, I'm gonna see where it goes because it's not the love that you need to see if you should give to someone or not. It's like, hey, do they actually align with my purpose, my passion, my values? And that's how you can kind of determine, you know, if they're gonna be a good fit. But a lot of people just jump into like, I wanna give my love to someone. I wanna treat someone like a queen. I want to treat someone like a king. That's what they always say, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

That's a sustain. It's not just not sustainable. It's not. But when you find somebody that that you're aligned with that supports, because I look at it this way, I always use the example of like my girl, like the one, whatever it maybe, she's gonna be in the front row of every single talk I'm given and just my biggest fan on the planet, but also, you know, corrects me if I'm wrong, keeps me in line, holds me accountable, and makes sure that I'm showing up as 100% myself every single day or to the best of my ability, and me being able to reciprocate that. If I'm able to find something like that where I was like, hey, listen, you know, look at that, you know, the old Forrest Gump movie when they're sitting in the rain in the middle of the war and Bubba's like, hey, hey, Forrest, you lean up against my back and I'll lean up against yours. That way we don't have to sleep in the mud. Like I look at life like that. If you can, if I if if and I feel I think that that's that's what the world lacks in the online dating world, is that connection because it's so surface-based. It's just meet somebody and go to the next step versus I don't know. I I have none of this figured out. That's why I brought her in. We're just hashing through this whole, you know, you know, conversation, you know, which leads me into the million-dollar question, which is is every do you believe every person is designed to be in a relationship? Is or is heat me?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Biologically, humans are just um a does design to be in relationship, or at least group or community. Sure. Right? We're not cats. Cats can actually work alone and function alone. Humans are designed to have community. To to have but that doesn't mean that I do a lot of stuff alone.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

I might be a cat.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

No, no, but you do this is a community. Your your podcast is a community. Don't say you do stuff alone. You're not a hermit. Don't pretend so.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I'm an I'm an I'm an I'm an introverted extrovert. So I recharge by being an introvert. And then I shine by being an extrovert. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, and that's fine because everybody needs to value their alone time as well. But I'm just saying, you know, when it comes to relationship, but we don't have to go into extremes. This is something that men do a lot and we're all taught to do a lot, is all or nothing, this or that, when really the world has, you know, it it's a scale, right? Masculine and feminine energy is on a spectrum. It's not all or nothing. And when we try to do all or nothing, we really miss out on the opposite, right? Because the universe requires balance. So if you're really holding on to one thing, you're not balanced because you're not getting the spectrum. Right. So people who are like, I'm just gonna be alone, fuck relationships, you know, like I went, I would I I went through that phase too. And that's right, but you also when you're doing that, you isolate yourself a little bit, you cut yourself off a little bit. Like you're not allowing now, you're now you're much happier alone because you did the work, but you're also open, right? Your energy is open. I'm I'm okay to find someone. You don't need to if you don't want to, and you're but you you desire, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Sure. Well, I mean it it fades in and out.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Well, I want to go back to your first comment about I want a woman who sits in the front row and does all this and that.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Um my equal, you know, disclosure, my equal.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

No, which is fine to want that. It's good to know what your wants are. And then the way that you connect with that person on an energetic level, right? Is you have to ask yourself, like, where am I not showing up for myself in the front row? Because if you're not energetically setting that standard for yourself, like, hey, I do this for myself every morning, I take care of myself, I do this, I do that. You won't match with someone else because energetically what you want is an you'll find an equal. So you want someone actually who shows up for themselves. You want someone actually who takes care of themselves the most. And then they're going to show you that same thing because it's what they do for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah, I like that a lot. I make my bed every day and my house stays pretty tidy. I've dated dated a couple messy girls in the past. And um, I don't know why I brought that up, but it's a very important thing to me to know that I align with, you know, someone who, you know, cleans their room. You know, because if you don't clean your room, your car's probably dirty too. And if your car is dirty, your purse is dirty. If your purse is dirty, then your life is just a disaster.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

How you do one thing is how you do everything.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Oh, hey, she said it. I just agreed with it. Um, I I like that. I like that a lot. So I am very happy. I'm very happy alone. I do enjoy my my downtime. Um, but it it does beg the question is someone else, is someone missing out because I'm taking too much time on on my own and am I avoiding potential opportunities? Because I I I um I reschedule and cancel a lot. See, that's out of integrity though. So I bet I will get to the point I'm like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to go out and spend 250 bucks to realize that I'm never gonna see you again.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

How do you know?

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Because we could do that Starbucks for eight bucks, you know, but you girls are onto that these days. They're like, oh, Starbucks, I must not be that much of a priority, you know? This whole dating thing.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I don't know. What date is it? The first date. Why would you spend 250 bucks on a first date?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

What's Miami time? You go out, have a drink, dinner, no? That's what I'm saying. You get it done at Starbucks.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Well, yeah, listen, I if she ain't if she ain't cool with Starbucks, then she's not my girl.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Well, for a first date, I mean, there there is a thing where women are like, you know, I want him to try, I want him to put in a lot of effort. Um, so then they're like, oh, he's really wowing me on this first date. And sometimes I think that can work. Like maybe if you know someone at work or something, or they're your friend, and you're like, hey, I really want to impress this person because I feel a strong connection with them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you're just getting to know someone, you've had like two conversations on bumble, like you don't know each other. So why are you gonna trap yourself in a date? Like, even women, like, they're like, oh, sometimes women are like, I want a free dinner or whatever. It's the weirdest concept, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

You gotta eat.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

It's the weirdest concept, but why would you want to trap yourself in a dinner if it's not working out, right? It's so awkward.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And then you're like, Yeah, then you need an out and you're calling your friend when you're in the bathroom. You're like, in 10 minutes, I'm gonna need you to call me. That just happened the other day. I was at a I was with a friend. She's like, Oh, my girlfriend totally needs it means it means needs me to save her. I was like, your girlfriend needs to start making better life decisions. Who am I to judge? Who am I to judge?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Or just being honest, like, hey, you know, um, I'm glad that we tried this out, but it's really, it's not working out for me. Or, you know, just like I think people are very afraid to be authentic and be honest about when something is not a fit, but the more honest you are, the easier life is for you.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Okay, cool. I'm just making sure because I'm brutally honest and very upset.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

I mean, you don't have to be brutal about it. Don't be like, hey, I actually think you're a hag, so I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Well, no, no. I mean, listen, feedback is a privilege and it's not something that everyone's ready for. So it's very important to preface things with at least I've got some feedback for you. Are you open to it? And people don't understand that process. If I say your hair looks like shit, I'm just being honest. No, you're just being a fucking dick. All right. There's a big, huge, huge difference between those two things. Um, so sometimes I go out and I'll meet someone. This happened to me a couple months ago, had the best time. We um we met and went out to went up, we had lunch, Lincoln Road, hanging out the whole line, but it wasn't a setup date. We just had met and uh hung out, and the energy energy was just off the charts. And like, and I wasn't jumping to conclusions, but I was like, this is really cool. I'd like to see this human again. And then, you know, the end of the day comes along and you get a church hug, you know, with the hug. You know what a church hug is?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Did you ever bring it up to her?

SPEAKER_01 18:12

What a hug? Church hug. Yeah, a church hug.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

This was really weird. We just did kind of like a church hug.

unknown 18:17

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I was feeling some vibes. I was going in for a kiss. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Is that what you're supposed to say?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I don't know what you're supposed to say. I mean, I'm just saying there are different ways that we can approach something instead of.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Let's get together. And she said, I'll see you around. And I got the church hug. And if for those of you not familiar with church, church hug is ass out, hands on the top of your shoulders. And then if she, if the the added bonus is if she if she taps you on the back, that's code for you will never see me naked. Ever.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

You'll never see me naked.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

That's what the tap on the back is.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

What did you do to what did you do?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

I guess I was just, I mean, we had great conversation. This whole, I guess I just read it wrong. I guess I just completely, I wasn't delusional.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

I would love to go, I would love to be a fly on the wall for these things because I I don't understand how people can be confused about signals, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:08

On this episode of Will Sebastian Find Love.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

But this is why I really, really enjoy coaching men, right? Because I'm coming from a woman's perspective.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

And a lot of the I could see you in a van outside the parking lot at the restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

No, but like tell her this when you as a man understand your own emotions, your own attachment styles, your own intimacy on like a very deep level, you will be able to read the room better, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Um, it's less about, hey, I'm trying to impress this person and have fun and we're having a great time. And it's more about the curiosity, like you're understanding the mood. And um, you know, women's survival mechanism is usually fawn, right? There's fight, flight, fawn, um, and freeze. And uh, you know, if a woman is getting a weird vibe or she's not feeling it, like fawn is usually the thing. Like she'll just give you her number or she'll just say, oh yeah, we'll meet again, like because she wants to avoid the conflict. She wants to avoid danger, right? Subconsciously. And because, you know, um, we've experienced aggression from men and distaste for men, if we don't give them what they want, we um we're afraid that you're gonna suddenly turn and be like, fine, bitch, like I don't like you anyway. You know, like things like this do happen. And if somebody's had that experience before, they're not gonna say, Hey, I don't, you know, this didn't work out for me to avoid it. Oh, thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye. You know, they want to be nice. And we've been taught to be nice. We've been taught to be pleasant. And um I think it really, really is, you know, it it's really the cause of a lot of like heartache and misunderstandings because we, you know, we're we're just taught to be courteous and no one is uh up front with each other, men or women.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Well, I I definitely think that we live in a world where, you know, I'll sell you my bullshit and then you sell me yours and we'll call it a deal. And I don't I I don't do any of that, especially. And I would I like to go deep pretty quick on on conversation. I don't, I don't you're telling her your day is that that's cool and everything. But I'd also like to know what absolutely sets your soul on fire and what terrifies you. And you know, what what what's this whole life thing about to you? Like what's this? Let's just have a conversation. That and that's exactly what happened. In fact, before I heard, I'll see you around. You know what she said? Sebastian, what an incredible afternoon. You are a gift. And then I said, Okay, so are you? Amazing. And I just like would reach up, it was like in the car in the car hug. It wasn't in the car hug. So you can't really hug, hug. Uh, maybe I should have got out. Maybe I did myself a disservice. I don't know. Anyway, um I left extremely fulfilled, not devastated because I knew that I fulfilled my mission, which is my life mission, which is every person that I get the unique opportunity to connect with, I want to make an impact with. And I want to leave them different. And I want them just to think a little different, feel a little bit different, just because they knew Sebastian. So, and I've I've started to integrate that into the into the dating aspect. I don't know, maybe I'm maybe that's To a fault, but I don't want to sit around and just talk about surface bullshit. Let's get down to it because eventually this whole the chemicals wear off and the honeymoon fa in in life. Now you know you're in the relationship and it's like, okay, cool. Well, we get to do this every single day, but it's not exact and it's it's hard work.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yes, that's true, but um, what's wrong with having fun with where you're at?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

I I I I'm having the time of my life. I'm totally, I'm I'm totally, I'm totally okay with that. I I I really, really am. Um Yeah. So about three years ago, somebody said to me, Sebastian, when you get to a place where it's if I meet her, integrate. And if I don't, great. There's a lot of freedom there. And I never forgot that. And I finally got there. And that's exactly where, and you know, my daughter's 20, she'll be 21 next next month, and that's that's kind of crazy to even say. But um I've tried to integrate in her life. There's this whole like facade and lie that life has this specific way of you go to high school and you go to college, you get out, you get a job, you get a boyfriend, you get a dog, you get here, you get a good job, you guys get engaged, you get a house, you can be right off into the sunset, and then when you're 50, you fucking hate each other. So again, take life as it comes, but there is no definitive, like, this is exactly what's next. The goal is to make sure that you're the goal is to make sure you're showing up as 100% yourself, is what I've always told her. Make sure you're showing up a hundred percent yourself and you're responsible for yourself, and then you're surrounding yourself with community and the people that genuinely love and care about you. And in the event the opportunity presents itself and somebody that may have you may have a romantic interest in and it's mutual and it's real, and your values are aligned and your core values are all squared, then sure, evaluate it. But I don't ever want you to think that because you're this age and haven't done this, your life is shit. So I don't know if that's the best parenting advice, but she is, you know, she'll call me and go, Dad, the amount of engagements that are happening on campus, I'm like, well, you're at a Christian college. Those Christian kids wanna, you know, they wanna, you know, they wanna, you know, they gotta seal the deal there, you know, before, you know, all the logistics. I go, I I get all that. Don't you dare. I don't, don't you, don't you dare. But um dating's changed a lot. I've seen a lot of divorces happen with the pandemic, and I'm sure you've experienced a lot of that. And uh I think it's too many options. I think that's that's that's the the the brass tax of it. I just had a uh I had another shocking like a friend that is getting divorced, and I was I was literally shocked. Um, but I think that uh the world that we're living in right now provides a tremendous amount of too many options for people and the and the door cracked open um is is is easier than ever. What what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 25:00

I mean, the amount of options are the same, just people's ability to find and explore different things has changed, right? I don't think that just because things are changing, it's necessarily a bad thing. Because the fall of one empire is the creation of another, right? So what we're seeing is the fallout of the societal standard that you go to school, you get married, and you stay married forever. Uh, people used to not live that long. Of course, it was easy to stay married, but now we're living to like a hundred years old and people are finding it very difficult. Like, so after like 25 years, they're divorced because we are not stagnant. We're dynamic. We want to grow and change and experience. And I think that we're also experiencing the death of monogamy. I think we're experiencing the death of like having to stay with someone forever, that a forever person has to be something that that happens. And a lot of people aren't doing traditional marriages, they're doing like spiritual bonds and things like that, or you know, exploring like poly-do a handshake.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

How's a handshake?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Is that fair? You know, so it's like the people who want to get married and have someone forever are gonna find other people who want to get married and have someone forever. But I think that it's just, you know, and plus when you look at um just society in general, the ability to care for a family is increasingly difficult because of the the wages just aren't matching up with inflation. And I see that as a worry and concern for a lot of men because traditionally men are the breadwinners and they're like, dude, I can't get married because I can't even afford my San Francisco basement apartment or my garage apartment. It's so expensive, you know, and they have the highest paying jobs, you know, that we can offer in tech. And um it, you know, so people are just like, I don't even know. It's just like a bunch of different things.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Let's talk about your post from I think it was last week. So you're in a relationship, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Okay, so you posted about your relationship being absolute shit in the very beginning. Um, and I I read a little bit of the post. I didn't end up reading the whole thing because I was like, oh, I I want to know more. I want to yeah, I want to know more uh in in person. So so this is a two-pronged question. So, first of all, I secondly I want to know how the work that you do with men has either impacted or uh good or different, your your relationship. Like, do you coach your boyfriend? Um and then first off, what triggered, you know, what what what triggered your your your interest in wanting to create that post on there? I uh what I took from it was she knew she really knows how to get on a guy's level of like at least thinking and like talking. Because like the first thing went in my mind was I've been in a shitty relationship before.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

I think everyone has, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Right, yeah, so let's talk about that for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Um, yeah, so no one wants to admit that their relationship is like shit, right? Or toxic or whatever. Um, but it was really because of what I went through in my relationship why I am the type of coach that I am, because I had to overcome so many things within myself and us and our container. And um, you know, I my boyfriend used to get really upset about me talking about stuff like this, obviously, because nobody wants their dirty laundry aired, but without sparing details, right? It's like good, I think it's good to be very honest with people. Sure. Um, we didn't have a honeymoon period. Uh, it was not, it was, it was like good. We had the connection. We both knew we wanted to work on things. We both knew we had um pasts. I had already been in therapy for um a couple of years at this point, and I was talking to my therapist, and I'm like, you know, I don't know where it's gonna go. I'm just at this point right now where I'm just gonna see, right? Like I'm not, I'm not making attachments and putting the marriage thing there and whatever. Um, but the thing was then the pandemic hit, and we had moved in together right away because I was nomadic. And you guys, I don't think we're on here, but I was nomadic before the pandemic, and I was just visiting Miami, that's where we're at right now. Ended up meeting my boyfriend. I'm like, okay, I'll stay here for a couple months and um just see where this thing goes, and then I'll probably go travel and whatever. Um, but uh the person who I was renting the condo from came back early. I didn't have a place to stay. I wasn't gonna get a lease. Um and so he like this was the day we had made it official that we were dating. He's like, Well, do you just want to move in here? And I'm like, Are you serious? This is like we just started, like we just made it official that And then you're like, let's do it. And I'm like, Well, fuck, I don't have any other choice, right? And he's oh he's willing for me to do it. So I guess we'll just see how it goes. And then the world shut down. Um, so then we and so both of us are new in Miami. We have no one. Um, we have no friends, we have nowhere to go to, and then the world shuts down.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

More popcorn, please.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Right. So it's a crazy story, right? Um, but it like I really started to see this as we we both needed each other to overcome this stuff. And um, we went through so many things because the apartment that we rented had mold in it, and I was getting sick a lot, and we didn't know why until I saw all this mold on the couches and in the vents. And um, then we went through like a really traumatic incident together, and it was just like fucking thing after thing after thing, and we were triggering each other all the time. And um, it was so hard.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

These people will run in the midst of all that.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

We and we, but we didn't really have a choice at the same time, right? Because the world was shut down and I couldn't freaking go anywhere. And my instinct was also to run, like, I'm just gonna freaking go to Bali or some shit like that. Um, but we kept showing up for each other, like, hey, we know this is hard, um, but we still want to work through it with each other. And um I think that was a really important aspect for us that we weren't hurting each other on purpose, just our own actions and being together was triggering things from our past, right? So we were noticing and recognizing and consciously trying to work on things together. Um but it was painful. And I wouldn't recomm I, you know, like I wouldn't recommend that anybody continue to go through relationship if you're going through a lot of pain. But it was something that we kept showing up for. And there were no um like deal breakers in there for me where like neither of us like abused each other physically or mentally, you know, at least not on purpose. You know what I mean? So it's like it was painful, but I I felt the need to stay because I knew that I had to work these things out, right? Like attached to maturity then. And yeah, and well, you you when you're in the mode of like I want to heal myself, it it's kind of like you have to rise to the occasion because I was like, if I don't overcome this stuff here, it'll show up somewhere else. Right. It will show up somewhere else. I'm like, I'm just gonna go through it. I'm fully diving in. I always ask the universe to show me what I need to know next to grow to the next level. Um and uh that's when I started coaching men, and the men's relationship showed me like the things I needed to study, attachment styles and childhood trauma. And that's when I took trauma therapy classes and I learned, oh, I know how to heal this stuff in the body. And slowly our relationship stopped being so triggering because I understood, oh, a chemical process goes off for you. In trauma therapy, we call it Hulk versus Bruce Banner. Once you hit Hulk, um you're sensitive for the next 24 to 48 hours. We were not giving each other enough time to cool down before like one little thing would piss you off, right? The socks aren't in the hamper. Ah, I'm upset again because you're sensitive. And once I started to be able to teach my clients that, they understood, oh, this is this is what happens. And then you prevent the Hulk from happening when you're when you're down here, right? So you don't get to that point. And then the arguments stop being arguments and they just turn into conversations. We we both learned how to ask for our needs. We both learned how to say when something upset us. It was very hard because you know, you have these habits of like, I want to accommodate the other person, I don't want to upset them, I don't want to start a fight. Um, you don't, you don't know how they're gonna react as you're going through this. And for my boyfriend, it was very difficult because men are not used to asking for their needs to be met. And I said, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

We just like to start some shit and hope it's gonna work out.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Well, you don't understand your own needs, and so how could you ask for them? And then, you know, asking for your needs as a man feels awkward because you're used to taking care of everybody and whatever. So I told him I was just like, I need you to just tell me what you need and let's work it out together. And it took a long time to get to that point where then he was just like, okay, like I feel really loved when you do this. Bucking A.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

That's I mean, that's they that's rare too. I mean, I commend you for doing that because that to be able to well, that was part of your own healing though. If you, if you, of you, you know, and plus learning how to do what you're going to be doing, working with men, whatnot. All right, it's a kind of a conglomerate of things all together. But, you know, I've it's easier to run. And I'm not a I'm not a big, I'm not a big runner, but I've experienced the runners, if you will. And I always said that I I in my last very, very brief relationship, um, we we would, we would, we would get into some very, you know, uh challenging conversation where nobody wants to budge and it's over some pretty dumb shit. But again, and I would always say to her, you know, you know, this is the training. Like if we can't exactly if we can't get through this right now, we're never, and she would always say, I'm just so triggered and I don't see a future with you, and I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to work through things and I don't want to, but and it was just avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. Now in retrospect, it completely makes sense. I was fucking devastated when it because I'm like, what do you mean? Why can't I mean this this is what it doesn't get any easier. Like if we can figure the small shit out, we can conquer the bigger stuff. And I just felt like I was never, and I'm grateful that I was never given that opportunity. You know, I look and look look back on it, but it's not always had I been given an opportunity where for her to go, listen, I just need to know what you need so that I can help support that process. Um, but you know, that comes with aligning yourself with the right person, I guess.

unknown 34:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Well, well, exactly. Like, and that's I think why we both chose to stay, because we both were at moments, and this is okay to admit, I think, where you're unsure and you're like, dude, I don't want to be in this anymore. I can't do this anymore. But for some reason, I felt the need to stay. And for some reason he felt the need to stay, and we worked it out. And I think that it's kind of like we did our relationship backwards, where like it wasn't the honeymoon period first, and then it gets into the hard stuff, and you grow together. It's like, oh, all of the hard stuff is first. Are we gonna fucking make it through this? Let's see. And now it's kind of like much, much easier, much better, so much more loving, so much more caring and kind. And now we're gonna move to Columbia together, um, which is all the stuff I wanted to do in the beginning, but uh, we weren't ready for that, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Like, um, I'm I'm I'm so fucking encouraged right now. I am so incredibly encouraged. And I I I'm around a lot of incredible marriages and relationships and fucking awesome people that have totally figured out the whole love thing and like the for the real deal, though, like the what you know, accepting it what it is, which is fucking work every single day, but the reward is is uh is is totally worth it. So I'm encouraged by you, Sharon. Thanks for your vulnerability. I expect you to be vulnerable. You coach men for crying out loud. Um, we're we're we're running out of time. You and I could talk for hours on end. We may have to do a part two of this conversation uh for sure. But before I let you go, let's talk about what you got on deck for 2022. I know you're moving to Columbia with the boyfriend. That's amazing. Um, you're gonna continue your digital nomadic movement and also working, you know, with with men. So, what does that look like? If somebody's listening to this right now and they're like, you know, I haven't figured out this whole love thing, and uh this Elise girl seems to know what she's talking about. What does somebody need to know about the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Uh, you have to be ready to show up for yourself. I mean, if anybody, like the reason our relationship, my relationship is still intact is because we both were willing to take responsibility for self. And that's the first thing I say to every man, um, woman, child, like it's not about fixing your partner and they're not uh, you know, attuning to my needs and they're taking advantage of me and all this stuff. It's like, why do I feel like I can be taken advantage of? Why am I not attuning to my own needs? Why am I not asking for my needs to be met? And those are hard fucking questions because you're like, this person is hurting me, but you're also hurting yourself. And you need to capture where you're hurting yourself first and fix that first before you can start to because once you change your self-identity, your actions change, your behaviors change. And guess what? The way you show up to the world changes. So people interact with you differently. You get that pay raise, you have more confidence, you get the girl of your dreams, right? But if you're just like looking at the world and you're rendering yourself powerless to it, right? Take responsibility and that power. So I don't know if I actually answered the actual question you asked.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Well, no, I thought that's the well, that's the preface for if you want to work with somebody like her, that's the work that needs to be done prior to making that jump. She's not gonna fix you. You're not here to fix men. Right. Um, she's not gonna fix you. Um, we're all a little fucked up. It's our responsibility to tweak that fucked upness and and uh show up the best way that we can. Well, um, thank you for your time and for this conversation. I um, again, extremely encouraged, both by your your own personal story um, but also with the work that you're doing and being able to, alignment's very important. There is no mistake while you and I are sitting right here having this conversation. And uh I look forward to many, many more.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Well, thank you. I appreciate being here, and uh, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Absolutely. Elise Michaels, everybody. Uh, all of her contact information is gonna be uh including your home address, home phone number, all that stuff's gonna be available.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yeah, good luck finding me in Columbia.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Right, exactly. Uh, LinkedIn, Instagram, all the socials I'll put in the uh in the show description so you'll be able to connect with her, Matt, and if you're watching this and it or listening to it rather and it resonates with you, hit her up, have a conversation, and see what's possible. Until next time, friends. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Beyond the Story Podcast. Be sure to appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. Signing off from the podcast, launchlab.com studios. We'll talk to you next time.