Identifying Trauma Through The World of Mental Health with Eliza Fernandes

This is the Beyond the Story podcast, a show that goes way beyond the story. And now, Sebastian Rusk Eliza welcome to the show.

Sebastian Rusk

Thank you for having me.

Eliza Fernandes

Thanks for being here. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy day. I know you're very busy and very much consumed in the world of mental health and helping humans navigate through that such a tricky process of life called mental health. So I'm excited for our conversation. So thanks for taking some time to hang out with me for a few minutes. So I love to tell people's story. on this show. That's really the preface of the podcast. So for context purposes, let's back up a little bit, help our listeners better understand a little bit more about you and your backstory, what really led you into being a mental health practitioner and helping people in this space.

Sebastian Rusk

So thanks again for having me, Sebastian. So my therapy or therapist experience, I should say, started about, oh gosh, I'm going to date myself. It started in 1997, and I had just finished my criminology degree, and I thought I wanted to be a probation officer. And so I went into probation. I hated the enforcement piece, but I loved the counseling aspect. And I got some really cool clients back then that and I knew that what was underneath all the offending was their mental health and some of the oppressive experiences they had in life. So it led me to go do my master's and jump into the trauma world. So I've always been working with folks from the trauma lens and the difference between the trauma lens and the medical model approach is that the trauma lens really looks at what's happened to someone rather than what's wrong with someone. And so I love that lens because it really looks at what's at the root of all of this and how can we get at the root of the experiences that they had so that we can alleviate some of the distress that is in people's lives. And so I've been practicing with my masters for 22 years. I'm going to go into the 2000s now, leave the 90s behind. And it's been a wonderful journey because I've continued to grow in different modalities. And some of the complex trauma folks have been great teachers for me. So that's my story.

Eliza Fernandes

Love it. Yeah. You know, when, when I have someone who's been on a personal healing journey myself for the past, you know, 10 plus years and heck, you know, this whole healing mental health process is a lifelong journey. I often tell myself on a daily basis, you know, I'm, I'm committed to the work. you know, every single day. Um, some days I fall short, but you know, it is an ongoing process of, of becoming. And as when, when we look at mental health as a whole, we look at, we've all got wounds and we all have trauma and we've all got a story back there. And I, I, I often I'm reminded that when I was a kid, they just wanted to figure out what was wrong with me, what's wrong with him. And after, you know, poking and prodding and trying to find out all they could figure out was that I was just a hyperactive kid. And I really took my parents divorce really hard. But outside of that, there was really nothing wrong, but there was a lot in the mix of the divorce and, and, and, and my childhood and things that had happened that created that trauma. And the trauma began to be the core of the way that I was wired up until making a decision and realizing, you know what, it happened. So what my parents did the best they could do, the resources they had, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm not broken. I'm beautifully created and built. Um, there's just some tweaking that can be done for me to better understand a little bit more about me and for me to show up differently. So I love what you said when you, Take the approach from identifying the trauma and finding out where the root of the issue is. Because if you can focus on where the root of the issue is versus just pointing the finger and saying, well, here's what's wrong with you. Because let's face it, nobody wants to be told what's wrong with them. I mean, I guess some people may be curious. I just want to figure out what's wrong with me, to which I often reply, nothing, but there's probably a few adjustments that can take place. So I love your approach with that. So when it comes to the work that you're doing with people on a daily basis, so someone comes to you and say, Hey, listen, I'm really struggling with my mental health. What are some ways you can help me out? What does that look like? I know every scenario is different because everyone's got a different story. Everyone's got a different bag of issues and trauma, but what does it look like on a general premise for you?

Yeah, so great question. And thank you so much for letting me in on on your story and your life experience. And I just want to say that hyperactivity just means that you were highly attuned to what was happening and you needed someone to guide you through it, right? Like, we all have these ways of how things impact us, and we need guides, we need that connectedness, we need that attunedness. So when someone comes in to see me, I'm always curious about What is most distressing in their life? What's on fire? What's bleeding the most? So is it anxiety? Is it depression? Is it lack of sleep? Is it hyper alertness? What is most distressing? And so I get curious about that distress, how it's impacting their life, the history connected to it. But when I do history taking, I don't go into a heck of a lot of detail because in talking about what's happened to you, you could go into a reliving experience semantically and not even realize it. You just think, oh, it's my story, but you don't even realize that your story is having an internal impact on you and so I'm just getting highlights and getting a sense of what they're still carrying related to the past and then I'm looking at can someone tolerate positive affect because that's primary because when you've been through a heck of a lot a lot of times it doesn't feel safe enough to be with positive feelings. It doesn't feel okay to be okay. So I'm really looking at front-loading that piece of can you be okay to celebrate yourself or be with positive emotions or do you find that you you avoid those experiences. So I'm looking at Front loading that, I'm also looking at, can someone state shift? Can they go from one emotional state to the other? I'm looking at how, are there life factors or life experiences that they need to have a different experience of? And then I'm looking for things like dissociation. And dissociation is so normative. Our brain automatically caps overwhelm by releasing dissociative chemicals so that we can check out in some way. And so I'm looking at, does that show up for people? And how does it show up? And how can we have a relationship with that so that they're not completely thrown off? So that's the piece that I'm looking at. But before I even do that, I'm asking someone, given that this is on fire in your life, If you could be on the other side of it, what would it mean? How would you be experiencing yourself? So I want to get a sense because everybody knows something about what it means not to have that distress in their life. And I want a clear picture of what that subjective experience is for a person. Now, once I have a clear experience of that, I'm, I'm looking at those pieces that I just mentioned, and then I'm going into processing some of the trauma and that could be done. I don't use CBT. I'm not a fan of cognitive behavioral therapy. So my foundation is, um, I movement desensitization or reprocessing, but lately I'm doing a lot of deep brain reorienting because it, it, it gets at the shock that our bodies hold on to. And so those are some of the modalities that we use. We use other somatic based modalities to release some of the shock that's in our body. And then at the end, we're pulling it all together and we're integrating it. So that's it in a nutshell.

Yeah, love that. So, and I love what you said about some people are just not ready for, I mean, again, we're never really ready for the work. I got blindsided by it. I met a girl on Tinder in 2016. I thought I got myself a girlfriend and she was only there to usher me through the doors of a course that would radically forever alter my path and teach me how to love myself and be fully accountable for my life, past, present, future, forgive my parents, step into my power, D all the above, life's never been the same. She broke up with me in the middle of the course, as if personal development and healing is not hard enough. Still a little heartbreak in the mix there, but I'm grateful for that experience. A few years after that, I met my breathwork practitioner at the gym. She was just this angelic, just tall drink of water. And women don't typically smile at men at the gym, you know, especially that I work at Equinox's high-end gym I was working out at, but she always would smile at me and be very nice. And we'd have conversations and we had connected and I'd follow her on Instagram and she followed me on Instagram and I'd learned that she was doing these part-time breathwork classes. And I was like, how's that going? Like, I don't even know about any of this stuff. No one knows about breath work. And I'm like, it's hyperventilating for an hour people. Um, and, uh, and, and she, she, um, said, you know, you should, I would, I would love to introduce you to the, to the practice. Um, and I'm like, well, I'm a man of faith. So I don't really get into this whole woo woo stuff. I don't be doing Reiki and chakras and all that. I don't know that that doesn't come from the Bible. I'm not, I don't really want to associate from it, but I am open-minded. because I do believe that Jesus sends specific people to me to help me better understand some things that I don't understand. So I'm open to it." And she goes, well, funny you mentioned that because I don't want to do a Reiki session. I want to do a mini breathwork session. How's Friday at two o'clock? I'll be at your house. And I said, okay, sure. Sounds fantastic. She said, I'd wear comfortable clothing. have a yoga mat and some space for me to be able to move around and just stay open. And I'm like, okay, cool. So I do this. And had I not gone through that course and really started to unlock the healing journey, I would have never stayed committed to breathwork. Cause I, you know, when, when you lay down on the mat and the music starts to play and she's prepping you and helping you understand how to breathe and all this other stuff, You're like, okay, cool, cool, cool. But when it's time to start doing the work and you've never done the work before, we automatically default to diverting and avoiding. And I would want to crack jokes or I'd want to laugh or I'd want to talk. And she quickly said, we can talk later. let's do the work that you showed up to do. And I finally was able to adapt to it pretty, pretty quickly. And it was a wild, wild experience. A lot of people have different experiences. It's very psychedelic experience for me, all done through the breath, all, um, natural. Um, but I began this in 2017 and I'm still do it. Um, not as frequently as I'd like to, but the class always shows up right when I need it. It's amazing. She doesn't do them that frequently, but when I really need it, like I, last time I went was last month. I saw a post about it on Friday. I'm like, eh, I don't know. Woke up Sunday morning. The class was on Sunday on Miami Beach. She normally does them in the afternoon. I didn't want to miss the football game. And I'm like, here we go. All this to say, breathwork has been a huge catalyst on me being able to continue to go in on Sebastian, go inward and unpack whatever needs to be unpacked and release whatever needs to be released. The reason I share this is because now once I've started this, I'm like, Oh my God, you got to go to breathwork with me. Like I'll bring anybody breathwork. And I brought some people and not like even knowing what their background is or anything. They're like, what's that? I'm like, are you open? If you're open, cool. Seven o'clock Tuesday night, bring a mat and a pillow and some water and comfortable clothing and get ready to hyperventilate in a very yoga studio type of setting. And that's all the information I tell them. Cause that's pretty much all that I got. There's been some individuals that I've met, specifically the girl that I'm dating right now, who's done no work whatsoever, zero at all. I've got another friend that lost her husband last year. She hasn't even begun therapy yet. So to go in and dive into some deep, deep work like this could really create a fucking shit show that that the people are not ready for. So I had shared with my breathwork practitioner about my girlfriend. I'm like, she's never done anything at all. Her sister got hypnotized when she was younger and she claims that she's still crazy to this day because she was hypnotized. And she said, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't bring her to breathwork out of the gates. I was like, so where do I bring her? She goes, how about like a sound bowl meditation class? You have to introduce people to the world of consciousness and meet them where they're at in a very, very nice. Now, if this person is like, I want to breathe, maybe they're open and they're ready. Cause we usually know when we're ready for that type of stuff, but. I brought all this up because you said not everybody is ready. And I experienced that with my friend who lost her husband. She is fully traumatized, admits to it and completely understands it. And it's just trying to do the best that she can do, but not ready to jump into a breathwork class.

But you're bringing up something really important, which is like what we call the triphasic model of trauma, because breathwork is more of a processing. It's being able to be with yourself, connect with yourself and be able to go internally. And I don't know a lot about the breath work that you're talking about, Sebastian, but it sounds like you're able to process through some past wounds that come up because of the hyperventilating and brings up some.

Yeah, it over oxygenates our body releases DMT so it can be several different experiences. So it can be past life experiences, it can be child, child, or like in the womb trauma that's created. It could be, you know, but you, you mentioned the word, it starts with an S. Somatic. Yeah. So somatic breathwork is essentially what she refers to at Fiji. Fiji, I believe is another word, but you'll get this like tetanus in your energy only has three ways to get out of the body, the hands, the feet and the mouth. So you experience a tremendous amount of emotion. It's very uncommon. It's very, very common to. laugh, cry, scream, feel your hands tingling, very cold, sweaty. It's the energy. You literally feel that release coming out of where it's at.

That is all shock. What you just described is all shock that you're releasing. So you're bringing up something really important, which is what we call the triphasic model of trauma, which is what you're doing. The breathwork is the second phase, which is the processing. You gotta do preparatory work before you go into the processing. And the reason why you were able to jump into the processing was you had a relationship with this instructor at the gym. You felt connected to her and that relationship felt safe enough for you to jump into the processing.

Right.

Right.

But also, but also the work that I had done too, which is very uncomfortable. You know, it was like Tony Robbins meets the landmark forum was that was this course. It was, it was a lot of rah rah, but it was a lot of let's get in there and figure out what's going on and let's get in. And then once we figure out, we identify, let's get in there and rip that shit out of you so we can live our lives now. So that was the preparatory work that I felt that led me to being even close to open, to wanting to go and do it. And that's since moved on from breathwork to, you know, she called me one day and said, you know, it's time to go deeper. I was like, what does that mean? And she's like, you know, I work with psychedelics. And I was like, oh, yeah, right, exactly. So we went even deeper on that, which is another incredibly beautiful experience of being able to just go, you know, breath work only takes you so far. And then psychedelics allow us to tap into, you know, way more than the 10% that we almost use of our brain. Plus we're opening portals into our brain that we don't, we don't normally have access to. So being able to tap in and receive information while also providing information that we wouldn't ordinarily share. I like to use the analogy of like, hey, you know, after a couple drinks, you're a little more prone to sing like a bird than you are, you know, first thing in the morning, having a cup of coffee on here. Not that there's any relation in the healing world and cocktails, but it's, you know, what is it? Sober words or drunk thoughts or drunk thoughts or sober words?

I don't know, the same. Anyway, right, right, right.

So just, I guess, vulnerable, more vulnerable and open through that process on here. I've since never in a million years that I think that whole journey would, would bring me back to what I now do to helping people start a podcast, which is helping them step into a completely different version of themselves because they decided to start, decided to start a podcast because what shows up when you think podcast, camera, microphone, all your every single critic you've ever adapted in your head shows up. Every fear shows up. I'm going to look like shit, sound like shit. Nobody's going to listen. I remember that time in third grade when I came out, I forgot my lines on the play. All this stuff starts to resurface and I help people work through all of those to help them arrive at a place that I hear you, but it's all bullshit. It really, really is when you get to the brass tacks of who you actually are. Um, so it's, it's been a wild ride over the past 10 years. Now that I get to live the work that I've done, um, and actually create a business, not that I help coach people to become a better version, but I do because of the vehicle that is podcasting.

Right. And that's, that's beautiful. Cause oftentimes it's our passions that lead us to the most successful places because it, it's not, it doesn't feel laborious. It there's joy in, in what you do. So I totally appreciate what you're saying. Cause I can relate to it.

Yeah, it is. I had a client call me a couple of months ago. Thank you for that, by the way. No, it wasn't a couple of months ago. Shit. It was a couple of years ago.

Yeah.

But I just want to let you know, she was at a personal development event, oddly enough, six 30 on a Friday night calls me crying her eyes out. It clicked. I finally got it. I finally got it. And I said, God, what are you? Okay. She goes, yeah, I'm good. I'm at Stacy's event was a mutual friend of ours. And she said, I just want to preface this before I tell you what happened, that what you do has very little to do with podcasting and everything to do with life. So what happened? So I told you, my mom died. My grandmother stepped in, took over. My grandmother died. I carried the guilt that my grandmother put her life on hold to come take care of me. And I said, I don't think that's what happened at all. I think you gave grandma the opportunity to do what grandma wanted to do. If grandma's looking down on you right now, she's like, you got it all wrong, honey. Thank you for the opportunity. Because what had happened in that conversation, in a coaching call a few weeks before, was that she said she can't go out of town with her husband without the nanny going with them, which was his assistant. And I'm like, wait a second, wait, wait, wait. Walk me through this, walk me through this. So the nanny can go with you to Texas and stay in the same hotel and watch the kids, because you trust her. But that same nanny, that your husband also trusts with his life and his business and the kids, can't stay in Florida while you go? She said, exactly. I said, so how much longer can you go on living that bullshit story? And that clicked. Next thing I know, the kids were staying home with an aunt and husband and her were just traveling wherever they were going to go. But that was the beginning of the conversation. Now, Lisa, I didn't even this was not a life coaching type of call. I was just a quick like side note, like tell me a little bit more about that, you know, but just wild to see how.

But it's that whole piece around, you're looking at getting at the barriers of what's there that's not allowing the person to move to the place they want to be. And then she took a look at, what is this reminding me of? What is this about? What is it that I have to heal? What is it that... I need to work through so that I, in fact, can get here. And so lots of people get it through beautiful conversations with coaches that challenge them. People get it through therapy. People get it through talking with a religious figure. So there are many ways of growing and unburdening yourself. And but it's but it's truly about giving yourself the gift to do that rather than being in that place where you feel bound and you feel stuck.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. So what would you say the most rewarding part of your business and job is?

Oh gosh, good question. It's a two-parter. One is the direct client work that I do and the growth that I see in clients and how they actually get to feeling relief and feeling like they have a nervous system that belongs to them and is no longer hijacked. So lots of beautiful experiences with direct clients and then it's my team I have a team of 12 therapists and it's. offering them clinical consultation and guiding them in their journey of being a therapist and helping them through some cases. So it's the twofold, it's working directly with clients and then just inspiring therapists to step in to being a therapist and to fill some of the clinical gaps because unfortunately there are some clinical gaps Like people don't really understand attachment, they like it's like attachment is something at the root needs to be addressed right like the the example that you gave was all about, I need to be close to someone. I need to be close to my children because that's what my grandmother did to me otherwise I'm not really showing love and so you have to be you have to really understand attachment and repair some of those wounds or repair what you didn't get and oftentimes people that experienced a lot of neglect They don't even feel that sense of being loved, but they know they're missing it. And then to get them to a place where they feel they're worth, oh, that's frickin' incredible. So that drives me.

I bet. I bet. That never gets old either, huh?

No, you're absolutely right. It does not get old.

My daughter's got her degree in psychology and she's in the master's program right now for mental health counseling. And she had originally set out to do nursing and that lasted a couple months. And she was like, I'm having a nervous breakdown every day. And I was like, okay, let's take a look at a different major. I said, let me ask you a question, honey. What do you want to do? She said, I just want to help people, dad. She goes, what about being a social worker? I'm like, wow, that's great work and everything, but you're going to starve. How about psychology? And she's still deeply passionate worker, dude.

Sebastian, you got it wrong. So you're thinking, you're probably thinking on the social, like the policy side or, or, or I don't know, but clinical social workers do very well. So it's, it may be a different, it may be different in Canada than it is in the States, because in Canada, the psychologists do a lot of the assessment and diagnosing, and then the social workers do a lot of the treatment pieces. So I don't, but I know that in the States you guys do your clinical site, social workers do exactly what psychologists do. So she would have been on the right path, dude.

I mean, again, she's taking a bit of advice from her uneducated father, you know, no college degree or anything, giving her career advice on here.

Connect with me. I'll help her out. Yes. Yes.

She'll be a great connect for you. Absolutely. You'll be a great connector, rather. I'll definitely make that connection. But yeah, I'm deeply passionate about the work that you do. Having the world of healing and being committed to a life of healing and becoming a better version of myself and then bringing that work back to the work that I get to be able to do, but really just the overall grand scheme of things of being able to see people go from where they are to where they want to be or not, you know, to not even know. And I guess the most beautiful part about that is that I always like to say that when we make a conscious decision to heal and we shift, other people around us shift and we don't have to do anything about it. And that's the beautiful, I think that's the most beautiful part about it. You know?

Right. Absolutely. They shift and they, and they, and they will get curious and some people will want the old you and they will be upset that you have shifted. And so that's when you have to make, you know, some difficult decisions around, is this the right person for me in my life?

Yep.

Great. And so, yeah, yeah, you it's it's a beautiful journey that we're all on for sure.

It certainly is. It certainly is. Eliza I really enjoyed our conversation. I'm so excited that we got a chance to connect here. I'm sure we're definitely going to stay in touch here. And I know we had a great conversation prior to the interview, too. So looking forward to see what transpires from that. But I do appreciate, again, your time today and really just enjoyed our conversation talking about things that really, really matter, which this whole thing called life and as we try and figure it out. make it up as we go, uh, which most people don't even start to recognize at all. I said, the most freeing part of my parenting journey was when I told my daughter that I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing and I'm just making it up. There was so much freedom available there. And when I look back on it now, and now she's an adult and we have an adult, you know, parenting relationship. Um, she said, you did, you did a good job, dad. You know, they don't, they don't, they don't grade dads. I said, yeah, they do. If you were a stripper, I would fail. Okay. So maybe how you look at it, who knows perspective people perspective, uh, any final thoughts for our listeners?

No, I think it's just that whole piece around, well, I'm saying no, and then I'm saying something. Yes, I do. I think it's that piece around when you notice that you're being thrown off, take a moment to get curious about what's happening for you, and then look at what's available to you in your area, and reach out to someone.

I love that. I love that. Thanks again for your time, Eliza. I really appreciate it.

Thank you, Sebastian. I appreciate you as well.

Until next time, friends. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Beyond the Story podcast. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. We sure do appreciate it. Signing off from the podcast, Launchlab.com Studios. We'll talk to you next time.