Julia McKoy - From A Cult To Content Marketing Rockstar

SPEAKER_00 0:07

I feel that goes way beyond the story. Julia McCoy, what's happening?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Hey, Sebastian. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Mrs. Woman Rising You.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yes. What an exciting week. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

The book is out. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Thank you. It's a good feeling that it's out there and it's done. And it's also a weird feeling because it's been two and a half years of writing, right? So it's like it's a lot of writing. Oh, the baby is born.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Right, right. Okay. So you yeah, you you like walk through each of those steps of everything. So we're gonna help our listeners better understand um how the book uh came to be. I talked about it a little bit here before the episode started and how cool you are and what you're doing and and how you're doing it. And uh we're here today to talk about your story and really back up to to to square one when it all began, when things weren't as awesome as they as they are um right now, and continuing to improve as you build your content empire and continue to write books like you know, like I drink beer, which is a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Not an accurate um comparison.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh the name of the book is uh Woman Rising, a true story. If you're watching a video clip here, that's why I'm holding the book up to the camera. If you're listening to the podcast, hey, thanks so much for tuning in and the link to Julia's um not only uh the book, but how to keep in touch with her, how to connect with her content company, all of those links and information that we discuss in this episode will be provided in the show notes. So you can just look in the description of this episode. All the live links are in there where you can click by and grab your copy of Woman Rising, a true story, a memoir she took two and a half years to write about escaping from her father's cult with her sister in the middle of the night when she was 21. That was extremely intriguing to me. Uh Bill, you you posted on uh Facebook a couple of weeks ago that you were looking to be interviewed on podcast, and a lot of people asked for that, and I'm like, yeah, who doesn't? You know, and then you said um I I want to talk about content and I want to talk about my story and I want to talk about mental health. And I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. The light went off, and I said, Okay, I these are conversations that I want to have. I want to meet and connect with new people that are like-minded. You and I were just chatting about um uh we had Shay Robotham in the studio, LinkedIn influencer extraordinaire uh uh last week, and her episode will be dropping uh very soon. But she she came from a very dark, dark space too uh on the edge of uh of suicide. She joined LinkedIn, built a community, and said, you know, once you get to the end, you really don't care anymore. So I just started sharing what was on my mind, and I was so transparent that it resonated with people and talking about depression and and narcissism and everything that I'd been through, and I didn't want to live anymore, but I'd chosen to stay you know to hang on for one specific reason and now fast forward some two years later, and she's she's she's becoming an an online phenomenon through her content and her transparency. So this is perfect timing to continue the conversation about mental health, about um depression, about um struggles that we all go through at one point in time. We have all been there at one point in time. I said that the other day that I don't think mental health is a disease, uh, and I don't even think it's a condition. I think it's something that each and every one of us as human beings experience. So let's go back to the beginning of the story. Um, let's go back to uh little Julia uh when this all began, when you first understood, and let's let's go let's kind of bring readers to the beginning of the book.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yes, yes, okay. Well, yeah. So my book really starts um chronologically. I did start with one scene from when I was, I think, eight. No, no, I was more um, I was six or seven years old. So that's where the book starts. But then I go backwards into birth and then I go forward chronologically. So yeah, the book begins, and I, you know, I was born in a the house of a cult leader, and back then he was known as a pastor. He would have said, I am not a cult leader, but I think that's what all cult leaders might say. And so he was a um pastor of a non-denominational church, and it was rooted in fundamentalism. And if you've ever anyone listening has ever watched or read The Handmaid's Tale, that story is basically radical fundamentalism taking over America and what that would look like if it happened today. And that was dad's beliefs and the same exact route was fundamentalism. So I grew up in that, it was really crazy. You and I have already talked a little bit about it. There was a lot of physical abuse, and then there was a lot of mental abuse, a lot of control, like this is how you think, this is how you act. So a lot of mind control. I didn't know how to think for myself. So leaving that, escaping that in the middle of the night at 21 was my first, I think, reach for mental health and wellness. Because I really didn't have any growing up. There was no space to be yourself. It was all mind control.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah, you said that earlier you said that when we chatted last week, you said that there was like mental health, like that's the A, B, and C, that's not one of the options. Yeah, unavailable.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

So so how did how how did how did it feel? Did you did you recognize um at a young age that you were suppressing feelings because you were forced to do so?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yes, yeah, absolutely. I started feeling um, you know, all the normal human emotions, like anger, and I had to really suppress that one in particular. So anger was something that you couldn't even show on your face because that was considered as rebellion and going against um dad, the pastor, the creator of the religion. So if you even show that on your face that you were a little bit angry, you got punished. And that's how it was in his house. And so I had to hide every emotion I felt and just walk through his house with this faith and appearance and everything. So even before words were spoken, I had to appear a certain way. So normal human emotions, you know, you kind of weren't allowed to have if it didn't fit in with the religious creed and how we were supposed to appear that was supposed to bring us closer to God, but in reality was just what a narcissistic cult leader created to control his kids. That was the reality.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Wow. And so so fast forward to 21 years old, you and your sister are like, let's get the hell out of here.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

My first question is why why did it take until 21 until 21 to to was it a was it a process of gaining up enough courage to do it?

SPEAKER_01 7:14

It was it was yes, I would say it was that, and it was a combination of I was pretty loyal, you know. I actually defended my dad. I thought he was good, I thought he was holy, I thought he was all the things he was portraying himself to be. And from the outside, the real problem was, and this is a big reason I wrote my book, from the outside he looked so good to other people. And they complimented us, they complimented him on how he parented us all the while. I'm like, I even as a kid, seven, eight years old, the thought was in my mind if these people really knew what happened behind closed doors, would they be saying this? I really doubt it. Even as a kid, like I knew that. But it was constantly told to us, oh, you have the one the most wonderful father in the world. So I heard that all the time. I grew up in his house.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

You're thinking, yeah, live with him.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But so when you're raised by um it can be the worst person in the world, but when you're raised by them, it's it's a really weird dynamic because you feel obligated. At least that's how I felt. I'm like, well, I'm his daughter, I have to I can't just break away and leave. And so there was like no courage to go and do that really until I was in my twenties. And then that's when I realized it was pretty much just this one thought I can't be in his house in my 30s. And I knew that. Like I was really worried about being this old spinster stuck forever in this religion that I really didn't even understand yet after 21 years in it. And that scared the hell out of me. So that really like pushed and prodded me. Okay, I have to get out of here. And then on top of that, I had this baby business that was growing. But they were trying to stop that. They were giving me tips and pointers on how to grow my business, which were actually killing my business. Like one rule they gave me was your profit margin needs to be 10% max. And I when I implemented that, I didn't make any money. And I was like, okay, this isn't gonna work. I have to, they're gonna kill my business. So on one hand, I have to get out just because of that, and then on the other hand, I can't be here at 30 years old, a broken person, not able to even live a halfway healthy life because of all the control. There was so much control.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, wow. Holy cow. Well, you know, glad that's over, right? If you if you're yeah, you do, and you and you, and you uh, you know, you look at all this stuff and you say, you know, that that that that was not God. I mean, it was very clear that that was that was not God. That was that was uh you know the enemy um you know in in in real life form um trying to to mimic um you know truth, which was completely false, right? It was doing it through through false prophecies. But you know, when when you look at the grand scheme of things, and I'm sure you've asked yourself this, you know, a hundred times, you know, why me? I think that that that that answer is probably very clear now, right? Had you not gone through and experienced that, you'd never be able to be an advocate for people that are currently going through it, have gone through and are victims of it, whatever the case may be. And it could be circumstances far worse than what you went through. You know, hopefully that's not the case, but I think you know, the fact of of you sharing your story and spending two and a half years to document what your experience was is is is will will will forever change lives. So I commend you on doing that. You know, I I don't think that sometimes we don't set out to to do shit that matters. You know what I mean? But you know, it all it all works for good, you know, regardless of what the circumstances are. So and you're living proof of that. So so um so so walk me through like the week before the the big escape. Like when like when did you guys start talking about? You did this with your sister, correct? Your older or your younger sister?

SPEAKER_01 11:13

My older sister by two years.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Okay. And uh so so when did the conversation start? Was it was it a long conversation in in in the works, or is this just a random, hey, let's get the hell out of here?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

It really was. It was the latter. It was weird because I'd never talked to her. Like back at 14 years, no one I was dreaming about escaping. It was almost like a fantasy, like, let's get out, rebuild a life. But I felt like okay, it's never gonna happen. And then at 21, I realized, uh, hold on, I'm an adult, I have a business, I can support myself financially. You know, why don't I try to get out? So um that year at 21, it was the worst um it had ever been. Like the physical abuse, the beatings when I was really little were terrible. And those ended when I was past 18. But those did end. But what happened after that, after the physical side of it kind of came to an end, was the mental control got ten acts. It was way worse. And so every day we were told weird, weird things. Some of these things I write in my book, um weird things that he tried to try to make us more holy, but in reality just shattered any sense of self-confidence that we had. So I would I would panic anytime I just saw someone I didn't know that I knew I had to talk to, even if it was just I had to hear hello. I panicked. I had no sense of being an adult. I had no sense of that. So at 21, um, that was the worst year for that. Um both my sister and I for our birthdays that year, our dad wrote us letters, and in these letters he actually said he wished that we weren't born because we were such a dishonor to his creed. So we got those letters and then we were banished um to our rooms for that our each of our birthday weeks, and my sister and I our birthdays were like only a month apart. So when that happened, I was like, okay, he doesn't even want me. And what that did was it actually gave me freedom to realize I can get out because he truly didn't want me. Why should I stay? And instead of like breaking me, that was that was my thought process. So halfway through that year, I went to went to my sister's room. We lived in the same part of his house in this um front wing, it was called. So we lived only a room apart from each other. So I went to her one night and I was like, Do you want to get out? Because I think we should. And she was like, Yes. And then three weeks later we were out. We escaped, we packed up my car with like clothes to last a week. We went to uh um so my sister had some connections. Uh she was cleaning houses for a living, so she had some connections locally, and I asked her, is there someone you know that could house us just for one night? Um, someone that their house could just be a safe zone for one night. Is there anyone we know? And what was really hard was the people we knew, they knew and supported that. So it was really tricky to do this. But she found that one person. She found one person and asked them and said, Can we just stay in your house one night? We're escaping dad's house. And you know, they they were like, uh, let me think about this. And then they said yes, and they let us um leave. So we left at 11 30 on a Thursday night. And we I was asking myself, should we tell our parents? Because I still had this guilt and a feeling of obligation to them. Which is crazy to think about now. So I still felt guilty for the whole idea of just leaving them. And at that point, we were also um we were most of our finances were going to them. They had taxes they put on us. So we were writing them checks like every day. So most of our money was going to them. So um I knew if we left, we would probably be they would lose their number one financial support. So that already made me feel guilty. But wait, here I am at 21, right? Like the thing is they just weren't adding up. So I knew I had to get out. So instead of telling them we left letters behind, and my letter is actually in my book in the appendices, but um, the real escape letters.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I'm gonna read that part.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

It's only two pages. So it's short too.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

But it is the most honest thing I've ever written to dad and mom. And we had to write a lot in their house. We had to write letters of apology for sins. We had to document the things that dad called sins. We had to read these letters publicly. So writing was a ridiculous part of how he believed and the control. He made us write a lot of things to him. But that escape letter was the most honest thing I've ever written to my dad. And I told him, you know, I have to get out. This this doesn't feel right. So we left those behind on his table and then we left right before midnight and escaped, and we were able to stay in that friend's house one night, and then the very next day I went straight from Pennsylvania to Missouri because I had met someone online who is now my husband.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

So I took a risk, decided to go meet this guy that so wait a second, wait a second.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

You you escape in the middle of the night from the cult that you've been in for 21 years, and you're like, online dating. Find a husband. Let's go. That's fantastic. You're like, let's go, let's go to Burger King and get on online dating. Like first things first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

It's it's funny. I mean, that's totally, yeah, that's totally how it looks. He was like in my past at the right time, and it was just like this God connection. Like, here's the person you're supposed to be with. Here they are, waiting and ready for you. And I took a chance and went to go meet him. He was that person, everything he said he was. And we met because he hired me to write his content. So that's how we met. And there was a smart guy connection.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah. He's like, I need some content, I swear. I don't want to date you, I swear. Yeah. That's great. So how how how how soon was that for after the escape?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Oh, that was um, so we stayed in uh my sister, the friend she found, we stayed in that house one night. Priscilla continued to stay there, but I half of me was I know I have to get out of this city. It was a city we'd grown up in my whole life. Where was this? Pennsylvania. This was in yeah, Pennsylvania. So right outside Pittsburgh, a really small town outside this um big city. So for one, like um the scenery really brought back memories of abuse. Like we were one thing that happened to us was we were locked in our rooms for long periods of time. So I was always staring at like the hills of Pennsylvania. And it was kind of like burned in my memory associated with captivity. So I knew I had to get out and leave that state to find like mental health and you know, like a new zone. I needed that so badly. So here was Josh, a thousand miles away. And I just decided, okay, let's let's drive through five states, go, you know, halfway across the country. I won't say dad can't touch me now. That that's a good feeling. And I'll see some new scenery and maybe I'll happen to maybe this relationship will work out. And I had no idea that, you know, he was the person that I've married and now built all my businesses with. So it was like totally like God saying, here's a person you can go to them and have a safe place. And you know, that was really important getting out of a toxic environment and then finding someone who was safe. Like that, I attributed so much of that to my healing.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Well, I mean, I'd imagine being a fly on the wall in that first conversation. Like, so Julia, do you have any baggage?

SPEAKER_01 19:24

You know what's funny? I actually anytime I liked a guy, what I was supposed to do was invite him to church. So I actually started with that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I still do that. That screens them out real quick. Listen, I want to go to Bible study and grab a beer after, okay? Don't judge my journey, all right?

SPEAKER_01 19:51

But yeah, so that was pretty awkward inviting him to church. Because it was like, oh yeah, um, you wanna, yeah, it's it's good to meet you too. Yeah, do you want to come to my dad's church with me in Pennsylvania here and you know, drive a thousand miles and and then maybe we could talk about dating? And he was like, So did he no, he never did that.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

He never did that.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, well, what's funny is like so hold on a second.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Oh, you met him before you left?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

No, this was all online. So we never met in person.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

I got it, but you met him online while you were still there.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Oh god, I thought you like escaped and you're like, okay, next, okay, next on the list, uh, boyfriend. All right, cool. Let's let's let's okay. So you've already been, yeah, you're like, I'm in captivity, might as well hop on Bumble, you know. Okay, got it, got it. Um what dating app was it out of curiosity?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

It was not. Oh, it was just the internet. Umesk. Who hired me to write his content?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

So that's how we hold on a second here. Sign up for Odesk later. Yeah. You need a website? No, I need a wife. Anybody, any takers? Any takers?

SPEAKER_01 20:58

That's not a choice. That is that's great.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Freelancing, bringing the world together, ladies and gentlemen. So um, so the entire so you you you drove, where was he? Texas?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

He was in Missouri.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Missouri, okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

So you drove five states, saw a bunch of scenery, you're like, I'm free. Um was there any was there any pushback or recourse? Or you said that the whole family shunned you away, and that was that was that. So there was no like, what are you doing? You can't leave, get back here, Julia. None of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

No, there was none of that. And my older sister was actually, she was really concerned. She um in her letter, she asked dad and mom not to send the cops after her. She was so afraid of them. She thought that dad would like, yeah, somehow get the cops on his side with for his 23 year old daughter. So I told her, you know, we probably don't have to worry about that. But that's how much fear like was instilled in us. She thought he had the cops at his control.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Wow. And get used to the city. And then you got you're like, nothing's gonna happen, like. Like nothing, nothing? Like nothing, nothing. Um so so you ended up so you ended up moving to Missouri. Is that what happened? And what did she and what did she do?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

So uh um she's one of the reasons I wrote my book, one of several reasons, because she's still up there in Pennsylvania. She lives only about 15 minutes from where we grew up. She hasn't left. I've bought her plane tickets, you know, come down to Texas, it's awesome here.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Like you can live with me, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

So yeah. So I can't get her to leave. And um, she she got married, got divorced, had a kid. So she's still in the process, I think, of finding herself and learning like what kind of life she wants to live. And it's it's been a hard journey for her. She still fights a lot of um what happened from all the abuse she went through. She fights those demons still today, and she's in that place, still fighting.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

It was it that's an interesting dynamic that you were like, I gotta get out of here. In fact, I met a guy already, and I'm gonna roll the dice and see what happens and get out and like go. And like that that was part of your healing and like delivery from this whole deal. And and your sister's story just worked out a little differently. But I mean, the fact the very fact to be 15 minutes away from you know, scene of the crime, if you will, you know, and to be that just like you said, you know, so much time in captivity looking out the window, staring at those frickin' mountains. Like, if I never see another Pennsylvania mountain, it'll be too soon, right? Yeah, so true. Interesting, but it it also goes to show that we're all affected differently from trauma, yeah, and that some of us are willing to to to work through it and and and take some ownership somehow, some way through it, you know, as crazy as it is. Um but well, I hope that you know maybe she'll come busy and not never never go back. So have you seen her since?

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yes. Um, yeah, I went back up there to Pennsylvania, Josh and I. We took his tiny little car. He had this little sports coupe, took it, drove all the way to Pennsylvania. Oh, such a rough trip.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Like, I don't know if uh let's talk about this whole marriage thing. Yeah, yeah. I want to I love you so much. Yeah, take a road trip and then talk to me after, okay?

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Tiny little coop too.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, exactly, yeah. My legs are cramping up just thinking about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Oh, it was rough.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

So you took a trip to Pennsylvania and you went to you you visited her. How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah, so that was um two years after we escaped, went back up there to go see her. And um just the the cities right outside the town we lived in were so seedy, and it was it was hard. Um, she was in this little tiny apartment, and like right outside there was this guy that looked totally like a drug lord, like just standing outside her window, watching the window. And I'm like, Jane, uh I was telling her, Priscilla, all these creepy people around, like, you know, let's try to move. And in that city she was living in, which was only a 10-minute drive, it was really small little city. Um, probably a better call it a town. Um, but how we grew up, we thought that was a city. So she lived there and all these, you know, all these crimes were happening, like there were shootings next door in the news frequently. So when I saw her, I was really concerned about that. But you can't you know, especially someone that I grew up with and wasn't that close to, I'm the last person that she's gonna listen to, right? Because I'm her little sister. So I couldn't really tell her, like, oh, let's get out of here, let's go to a new place. There's you can sometimes a new set of just scenery around your roads. Yeah, that did so much for me. Just getting out and going far away. That did a lot of good.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Good. Well, I so are you in contact with her? Do you talk to her still?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

So since then, uh, we've definitely had um ups and downs. Two years ago, I spent some time with her in person. We all we actually reunited with my mom's side of the family, my aunt, my grandma, who I'd never met before. And that was that was amazing. They live in Connecticut and dad cut them off because like that's what he does. And they wore a Hawaiian t-shirt, you know, so really silly reasons that didn't fit in his creed, and he cut them off for life, and mom could never speak to them again. So we never met grandma and Aunt Robin and all these amazing people that we now know that are there for us no matter what. So that's been amazing. So they've been great allies for Priscilla, and that's definitely helped her.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Oh, good. I mean, as long as she didn't go back, I mean, right? Because you said it's still the cult's still like a thing, like you're still like your parents are still like like all in on it, huh? Yes, it's still a thing, and that's and it falls under like religious freedom, so there can be nothing can be done. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah, even the physical beatings, like there's no way I can we've tried, and that's one reason I'm writing this book because I'm trying to shed light on something that's been hidden for like over 50 years. This is a generational thing. My grandfather started it, my uncle runs another branch in another part of the country, it's like three times as big as my dad's church. No, more like ten times as big because dad's church was only his family. So it's definitely still an ongoing thing. And it's like like we were saying at the beginning, you know, if you've ever watched the handmaid's tale, that's fundamentalism. That's the same religion, exact same religion that my dad holds, but in just a different vein. And fundamentalism is often called non-denominational Christianity, and it looks good, it fits in with society's appearances of good religion. But you know, he picked like the middle of our house to do the beatings, and he made sure there was no windows and no one could see, hear, or witness this. So there's no way to get evidence to even start a CPS claim. And then in Pennsylvania, there's this ridiculous law, in my opinion, called the statute of limitations, where you have to have witness C views within two years. So I couldn't even talk about it till four years after I left. And that's the first time I called CBS and tried to get freedom for my little siblings that are still locked up in this.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Oh, so you still have siblings there.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Oh yeah. Yeah, two little siblings. I forgot to mention that, didn't I?

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Oh, that's a minor detail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so hold on a second. How old are they?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

They would be 13 and 10 now.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

So we were yeah, we were 18 years apart. I was my older sister was 18 when dad and mom decided to have two more.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So yeah, they're still they're still in it. And that really broke my heart. Happened to leave my he was uh five when I left. My five six year old siblings, like that really broke my heart to leave them. But in no legal world could I, you know, take them. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Did you have any traction with with uh with child services?

SPEAKER_01 29:16

No, because of that two-year law. So I called four years later.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

So I don't understand what do you mean by the two-year law? Like the statute of limitations, which is like they can't so if it's been two years, you can't report it.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Yeah, so you have to have seen it within two years. If not, it's not valid.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Oh, if I call four years later saying, Oh, there's two little kids locked up in this, I went through it for 21 years, they won't listen to me because I didn't see it within two years.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Wow. I would call Dr. Phil.

unknown 29:47

That, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I'm not I'm not kidding you. He loves putting things like this on blast and figuring it out. I would 100% do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah with like operation get the siblings out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

For sure. Because you, I mean, you can you you can, you know, you can cut off ten years of trauma. You know what I mean?

unknown 30:05

I know. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

You know, and there, you know, maybe somebody listened to this, maybe maybe somebody's gonna listen to one of your podcast interviews this week on on, you know, on your book and what you're doing. I mean, number one seller, hey, I see what you did there, God, I see what you did there, you know. So um, yeah, I think there's there's uh there's more to come with with um you know the the light you're gonna shed on this situation through your story. So and I feel really strongly about that, which is ex which is just really exciting to know. A, that you got out. The downside is you know it it adversely affects your sister much more than than than you or to to current day and your and your other siblings are still there, you know. So um, but uh, you know, I'm curious to see how that ends up you know playing out here. Well, I I'm excited to read the book. I told you it's gonna take me like two years to read it because I'm not a big reader and it's very I mean like this, like if you're watching the video and you can see this on the hundred pages, there's a lot of there's a lot of memoir in here, okay? So uh I'm excited to um I'm excited to dig in and and read this and and and really better understand. Not not that I don't understand the story, but we're kind of getting the cliff notes and the reader's digest 30,000-foot perspective here um on the internet. So let's um in in and again, it's it's just my pleasure to to chat with you about this and thank you so much for your transparency and for writing this book. And I believe that lives are gonna be changed and impacted for the better because people are gonna read and see these things and listen to episodes and interviews like this and say, holy shit, that's me. Like, wow. And there is there is hope for like, I mean, my goodness, yours. I mean, I the only thing that keeps showing up in my head is Cinderella story. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I've heard that before.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

100% Cinderella story, right? Except there were no stepsisters involved, you know. Um, there were just siblings involved. So, and uh, you know, your your husband sounds like an absolute saint.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

So um, you know, he would probably disagree.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Oh my goodness. It's like, could you imagine you showing up and you're like, hey, how's it going? You're like, what's up? I've been in a cult for 21 years, want to make out, you know. So at first you're like, no, I'm not allowed. Wait, I wait, I am allowed. Um, let's uh let's switch gears a little bit and talk about your business that you actually started while still in in uh in captivity, if you will, uh, which is the content writing business. So let's talk about how that started and then how it's grown into the empire that it is today.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yes, yes. I love that part of the story. That um, and I think back to your conversation you had with uh Shay, the LinkedIn influencer. It's uh I think you said that, you know, her the once you hit rock bottom and you're in a place that's so bad, the only way to go from there is uh right. And so for me, my lifeline was this creative outlet I had, which I had since I was six or seven, and could put pen to paper. And that outlet was writing. I had read reading, first of all, before writing was my world. Like I escaped my reality through fiction. And some of my favorite books were Narnia, the Narnia series. So I lived that and I would wake up every day trying to read with every bit of daylight that I could. And I read over, I think, six hundred books by the time I was sixteen. Because it was just my reality. That was life. Better than life. So the stories were my life. So then I started writing and that was my passion. That was that came really naturally to me. So at 19, I was when I was actually going through college to get an RN degree. I'm really surprised uh my parents let me go to college that that happened. I mean, I was the weirdo in a long skirt, you know, so it wasn't easy. Um, but I was halfway through getting my RN degree, thinking, oh, I want to help people. Okay, let's be an RM. Natural next step. Uh no, actually, I would make a terrible nurse, can't really save lives on my feet in a split second. Actually, would probably do the opposite because I think better behind the scenes. I'm a creative person. Right, right, right, right, right. You know, it takes a special person to be a good nurse. It really does. So halfway through school, I was like, okay, I really wouldn't enjoy this. What would I enjoy? And I knew in a split second, writing. Okay. And then my next logical thought was, let's make money writing. And then my next logical thought was, let's Google that. So that's what I did, how to make money writing. And then that that was 2011. I was 19. I came across a whole industry that was just emerging back then. I mean, it was it was it still had some time and traction, but to me, it was still still somewhat of a new industry, freelance content creation. So I found that whole thing, and I found, you know, like 40,000 gigs posted on Odesk. Um, today that's called Upwork. Back then it was called Odesk.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

So wait, here's 40,000 writing jobs. And I was like, really?

SPEAKER_00 35:12

And they all pay actual and 39,000 of them are hired by overseas, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah, that yes, that was the reality. Very true. So that you know opened up the whole world to me of you can actually make money doing what you love. I validated that. Imagine that by looking at that, yeah. And it was just like, whoa, this exists. So once I knew that that existed, then it was like, okay, it's go time. I mean, that's just how my brain thinks. So once I know there's an opportunity, I want to go do it, and there's nothing stopping me, and I might be crazy. We all are that person.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Yeah. Normal's a setting on your dryer. Yeah, that's my favorite saying.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

So I started a profile. Like the day I Googled and found that, started a freelance profile, posted, just wrote this short bio bio about myself, and then got my first writing gig. And it was pennies for you know, barely dollars for writing one piece of content. But that was my training ground, and then I got a lot of those. I scaled those, I learned how to type really fast.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Always a plus when you're writing, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Yeah, it's like I can type 150 words per minute.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And that was learned through the battleground of taking on all those really cheap writing gigs.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Right, in order to make them problem, like I gotta get these things done in a reasonable fashion, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um so you just started taking gig after gig on Odesk.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

I did, and then before I knew it, I had clients like wanting more, and then I had other clients wanting to hire me, and then it was like every proposal I was sending, I was getting hired, and then I was like still like trying to navigate college and the minefields of what was going on at home. So it quickly became like, whoo, okay, um, there's I gotta figure this out. So in three months after pursuing that, here I had all these paying gigs, and some days it was like unheard of in my parents' house to make over a hundred dollars a day because we were below poverty level. That's how we grew up. So it was unreal to be able to make over a hundred dollars a day doing work online. And so here I was doing that. Three months later, I had all of these clients, all of these gigs. So my natural thought was, okay, I can't do this solo anymore. Why not start a business? So in five minutes, I came up with my business name, thinking, okay, I'll just try this and see what happens. And my thought was it probably won't last more than a year, but hey, I'll at least have fun doing it.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

So I didn't really spend any time on my business name. I just came up with the best thing I could think of to write what I wanted to do, ExpressWriters.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

ExpressWriters.com. That's in the show notes too.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

That's it. So what year was that? What's that?

SPEAKER_00 38:15

What year was that when you came up with the name?

SPEAKER_01 38:18

2011.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Okay. So you so you this is still this is still in in in the cult? Like 2001. Okay, so you spent so year before year before the big escape was when you came up with Express Riders. And then what did that mean now that you've started your own company? Does that mean you were hiring other writers to to take on the work and send out proposals? Or how did all how how did you start? I mean, we talked about how you started, but what once you had the name, what happened next?

SPEAKER_01 38:44

So my next thing was, okay, I'm going to hire writers. And I never even thought of like a management team. I had like, here I am, a 19-year-old, right? No business knowledge whatsoever. Like, I don't know how to start a company. Right. So I'm just like, next, next.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Back to Google, how to start a company. Right, right, right. A wealth of information at our fingertips.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Yes. So I was just like, okay, I'm gonna start by delegating the writing work because that was what that was my breaking point. I couldn't keep writing hundreds of articles per week, but I was starting to get good at the marketing, positioning, um, getting clients. That was really coming easily.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

So I So give me some examples of like, so you're talking about marketing and advertising your business, like Express Riders to be able to gain more business outside of Odesk.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

And it was really organic and small. So I was using Craigslist to say, hey, I'll write content for you. Here's my website, here's my rates. And I had a free domain, so it was like expressrider team.webs.com at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

You're like, you got a pen marketing, yeah, with a lot of ink. Okay, write this down. So so I got those complaints. You're right, right, right, right. Get a real domain, lady. Goodness gracious. So um, and then can things continue to grow. And I'm just like any other business that you're growing, you're you're you're tweaking things, you're finding what works, what doesn't work. Um yeah, and then so did your husband always work with you? I mean, it's from the day you guys met on, or was this like a transition, or how'd that all come together?

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah, so um 2011, right, was when I had the idea, acted on it. Three months later, I have this business called Expression Writers. I have my first five writers, and then I have to restart college full-time in the fall. So I'm like, ooh. So here I am trying to succeed at college, this baby business booming on my hands, and then life at home with dad, where we were communicating through email at that point. I couldn't even talk to him. I was being shunned and there was so much mind control happening. So all these three things were going on. So naturally something gives, right? So I failed college and it was miserable. I it was like a giant F how I failed. And the score was so low in my um semester, I was getting an F in each area because I often was faced with the choice. Um, I'm going to either fulfill this order for a client and get paid, or study for my test, and uh liked getting paid.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Right, right, right, right, right, right. That's a comparison, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

So I failed college and that and yeah, yeah, 2012.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Shucks, yeah. Darn it.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Yeah, yeah. And dad and mom were really disappointed. You know, it was like that's when they really started looking at me as a failure. And that was right before I was written those letters. My sister and I both got letters um that said, you know, you're a disgrace to us. You should have been born. So I I get that. I know I failed college, but my business is growing, it's booming, I'm loving it more. Like, that's the most important thing in this. Like, I'm actually really enjoying what I'm making money doing because I love to write. Sure. And then the internet marketing skills, well, I just learned those as I went, and it wasn't anything fancy. It was like, you know, a free domain. Okay, now I know I have to buy a paid domain because my clients are like, What the hell? Yeah, why is this 10 million letters?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Why is this lady's domain name so long? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

I had one person, oh I um, it was ExpressWriters Team at the beginning, and I had one person confuse me with a um steaming company, a cleaning company that steamed carpets. So that's when I knew. Uh-oh. Oh writer.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Oh, writers team. Oh, oh yeah. My goodness.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah, he's like, you should fix that because I thought you were a steam cleaning company.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

You're like, could be lucrative, not really my line of work. So you just change it to express right. That was a that was an easy domain to get?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Or you don't you well um that was actually I had to pay $600 to get it.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Oh, that was still a deal though.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

At the beginning. So it was 2012, and I realized, okay, I have to have a domain, I have to have these things. Uh, but my priority was let's buy a car in cash and try to get out. So that was like that came before trying to buy my domain, right? So all these things that my clients didn't see that behind um what was actually happening my whole life. So those were my priorities. Like I need to, you know, figure out how to have mental space to even be able to think. And that I I know I have to get out in order to have that. True. So that was my priority.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

I'm surprised they let you get a car, huh?

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah, well, it happened because my dad bought a car um that he didn't like and he wanted to upgrade. So he sold me his car for full price and I bought it.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Full price. Well, the guy's working from the heart, yeah. Yeah, buddy. Well, at least you got Yeah, I mean, I at that point you probably would have walked out of there.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Bicycle.

unknown 44:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Sister on the handlebars. Yeah, for sure. It's E.T. out of here. Um, so so a lot of people may be listening right now and they may think content writer. What does that mean? Well, I think it's today's modern copywriter would be the same thing, right? Or copywriters are ones that edit the content, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

So copywriter is um, I would say that's more cornered by someone like um Joanna Weeb. She's a leading conversion copywriter. So copywriter, you're writing content that converts. And that is often like super lucrative. You can charge thousands of dollars per page.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

So like direct responses to copywriting. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So Joanna, for example, she starts at I think 30 to 40 to $50,000 just to start working with her. But content creation is usually done for like to get at the top of Google, to build your brand, to build your blog, to get some content out there. And what we're doing these days, like it's 2020, right? And we're so far past 2011. So what we're doing with content is we're almost feeding conversion copywriting. Because if you don't, if you're publishing average content, it doesn't work anymore.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Right, right, right. You've got to be able to grab it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

You've got to grab. So why would so so these this could be anybody. This could be a law firm, a local business, a large company, a marketing company, uh, a podcast studio. This could be um this could be anyone that that needs to better tell their story through effective, through effective copywriting, essentially, through content marketing. So not to confuse people, if you need someone to write a blog post that catches eyeballs, grabs attention, and piques people's interest, that, my friends, is content marketing. So if you're wondering what that is, so now that we've talked about what it is, why do brands need to utilize it? I mean, you mentioned a couple of things a few minutes ago, which are uh, number one, it allows you to have, you know, fresh, new custom content as a brand, but it also allows you to rank better with the search engines and become more SEO friendly. And how does that work? Do you go out and find kind of like is it like like I we do YouTube videos? We'll go do research on what people are searching for on YouTube. We don't want the way popular subjects, but we don't want the pot subjects that aren't popular. We want something right in the middle of the road so that when people are saying, How do I start a podcast uh on YouTube? One of our videos pops up. Is that the same thought process?

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Yes, exactly. It is. It's a similar strategy, low competition keyword that hasn't been cornered by a bigger brand than you, and then create the best content for that keyword so you show up in the top three or five of Google. Yeah, same strategy.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

I didn't even think about that for blogs. I don't know what rock I've been living underneath. I mean, I I was gonna say yeah, I dive, I dive right into this the lovely process of creating YouTube videos, insert sarcasm here. Um, but it's a lot of time. It's it's it is um it is my biggest challenge as a content creator, is is my YouTube channel because I've got an hour of research, I've got an hour of recording and editing, and then I have another hour of posting it, which it's like a science of how you're talking about it and what the name of the video file is and what the name of the thumbnail is, and are your tags included in your description? And do you have 2,500 characters? And is the keyword involved with that process? All kinds of logistics per video. So when people say I want to start a YouTube channel, I I sit them down and we have a little talking to, which is, you know, are do you understand what's involved with the YouTube? Because it's not a upload and hope for the best. Most people do that. You know what I mean? I have a YouTube channel, I've got 500 subscribers, and we just we just upload, you know, we just upload whatever and just the we just let the YouTube's go to work and it just doesn't, that's just not how it works. Oh, that's that see, I always learned something new on these interviews here. I mean, I probably I had a good idea that blog posts could strategically place your business on the first pages of Google because based on you know strategic keywords, uh, etc. So we fast forward to 2020. Um, Express Writers is doing incredible. How many team members do you guys have now?

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Oh gosh, we're up to about 90 total between writers, editors, content strategists, and our management team. Yeah, so about 90.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

You guys run everything remotely?

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Yes, 100% remote.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

My buddy Jay Bear does the same thing. Do you know Jay Bear?

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yes. Yes, I met him at Content Marketing World. He's the best.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

He wrote the forward for my book. Speak of right, speaking of writing, my first book.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Oh amazing.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Working on my second book. Maybe you can help me out because I'm I've been working on it for a year and a half. Oh my goodness. Holy God. I'm about to scrap the whole thing and just start all over again. I think what I started with, I took um my core, my podcast, how to start a podcast course of nine modules and just broke that down into nine modules. Or excuse me, nine modules. I broke it down into nine chapters and then added some more words to it, and I was still exhausted. And it was like a little baby book, like a little minute, it was like a glorified pamphlet, right? Four and a half by like six and a half. You know what I mean? And I've saw them like Grant Cardone put one out, Lewis Howes put one out. I'm like, these little pamphlets are cool, right? And uh this just dawned on me this week. I thought, you know what? Maybe I'm not supposed to put out the glorified pamphlet. Maybe I'm just supposed to crank out another 30,000 words and just, you know, which seems like an eternity to me. And that's not even a big book. That's like a hundred pages, I think.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Mine was about 130,000 words.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Oh dear God. I'm like, I my first book, Social Media Sucks, was um a hundred was 30, it was what was it? We had 33. We our our goal was 30,000 with a buffer of 3,000. But it was super easy. I went to work, I had a my publisher just assigned me an editing team. So they would just call me and ask me questions, and I can talk until next Sunday, no problem. So I had what I did was I had an outline, like my own version of just bullet points of a I had a chapter list, and then I had bullet points under each chapter, and that's how I started. I'm like, I don't know how to write a book, but let's put the chapters down first. So I did all the chapters first, and then I would do bullet points under each chapter of everything I wanted to include in the chapter. And then underneath each bullet point, I would elaborate on a paragraph, and I would just rent so I would, I so I had that expanded. Um, I don't even think you would call it a uh, what did they call it? Um it's when you send them a manuscript. There you go. I'm like, here's my manuscript right here, Buffy. It was just a mangled piece of it was what I what I had had, but it was great, and they loved it because I was assigned an editing team and and and one of the individuals would call me, said, Listen, we're gonna spend um about uh eight hours total. So we'll spend, we'll do four two hours, we'll do four two-hour calls, and we're gonna run through this whole list of your chapter list and everything that you've covered. And I'm just gonna ask questions and I'm gonna and I'm gonna poke and prod and dig deeper until I have enough for what I need, and I'm gonna record the call. And then the recorded call goes to a team of transcribers. The transcribers transcribe everything and then send over uh the transcribe version to a copywriter for editing. And then we'd go through like nine editing phases, grueling editing phases. Um my favorite, my my point of saying all this is that it wasn't a lot of Sebastian, here's your pencil, like get to get to writing. Because I uh when I tell the story of writing the book, I'm thinking, you know, I when I first got pitched on the deal, I was at um it was the National Speakers Association annual conference, and I got introduced to a company called Advantage Media and a guy named Adam Whitty. Uh Adam is the is the founder and and and president of Advantage Media, now Forbes Advantage Media, and they're in they're in Charleston, South Carolina. But he um he uh created StubHub when he was in college, the ticket exchange, and then sold it and then started uh Advantage as um a book publishing company, a hybrid between a major publisher and self-publishing, primarily focused on entrepreneurs, marketers, authors, speakers, coaches, et cetera, that understood their next next natural step as an influencer and person of authority was to write a book. So when Adam Adam's like six, four, tall, skinny guy, southern gentleman, and uh, you know, he literally was looking down on me and he's like, have you ever considered writing a book? And I'm like, have you ever thought about writing a book? And I said, you know, Adam, I think about it every day. But the the thought of waking up and writing another page, like I've made it to maybe chapter two. Like to think that I have to start chapter three, I'd rather wake up in the morning and you know, eat my pillow. So um I said, so so to flip the script on you, have you ever thought about starting a social media strategy for the publishing company? And they're like, well, we thought about it, but we really haven't done anything. This was 2012, I guess, 2013. So this was in this in the summer, I think it was like September, went to the conference, came back. We ended up having an initial call and said, Hey, listen, why don't we? It's $25,000 to write the book to hire us and bring us on. And I was like, who's got that kind of dough? And I said, Well, if you guys are open, you have no social media strategy. My agency charges $2,000 a month. $2,000 times $12, $24,000. We call it a deal, like a wash. And he goes, you know what? That sounds like a great idea. Let's do it. And I literally bartered my first book for $25,000. But I look back on it now, Julia, and I I, you know, I if I if I if I was liquid and said, you know, this is how I write books, I wouldn't hesitate on going and doing it. Um, but it was no easy process, say the least. And especially if you don't enjoy writing, you know. So I'm trying to find some hacks of like speaking of that. So if someone wants to, if someone's watching this right now and they're like, I want to write a book, like, but they don't have a ton of resources. Where do you suggest someone starts these days?

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Yes, yes. Oh, it's so true. Like to write ExpressWriters.com. It's yeah, otherwise it's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Right. It very is. It's yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

And this is my third book. So my other two books, uh, my second book was also 380 pages. So um writing becomes really naturally, but not so much, you know, for the majority of people I talk to, they're in your shoes. It's true. But the one thing I'm doing, um I'm not really doing this with Express Writers because our focus is online content creation, not like book content. Book content is so different than online content because you're telling a story that connects chapter after chapter. True. So it's a whole different ballgame.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Unless it's choose your own adventure.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

And you can mix it up. I remember those.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

You're like, go to chapter 12. You're like, I want to read the next page. You read the next page, it makes no sense. You go to chapter 12, you're like, oh, this is where the aliens went. Sorry. Look, squirrel.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah, so books, totally different ballgame than online content. But I've seen the power of what books can do. My first book, So You Think You Can Write, 2016. That's such a great name.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

So you think you can write.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Yeah, it's worked really good. It's it's the rough.

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Maybe I'll write one that's so so you think you can podcast.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Yes, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

But long story short, last year, um, when I launched my personal brand, I decided to launch a personal brand um as my second business content hacker. And we were able to buy the domain contenthacker.com and even snag the trademark. So I got really lucky with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

And so what are you guys doing with that?

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Is it so that that is your personal brand?

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Yes, contenthacker.com. That's my personal brand. So um, what you just asked about books, 100% true. I've identified that among so many marketing geniuses that like have books in them, know how to speak really well, but I don't usually speak very well. So I usually control myself when I speak.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

That's a lie.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

I'm learning that. So I write way better than I talk. And then I can assemble a team of writers. Like that's my superpower. I really know how to lead and work with writers well to produce epic content. So at Content Hacker, the only two things I focus on. And I do, I take on about three to four clients a month in that. The only two things I do are one, we write books, and the second thing, we write long form blogs that start at two to three thousand words. So I'm wrapping up, um, it ends in like three weeks. Wrapping up helping um Ryan Stewart, who is uh founder of uh Weber, an SEO agency. He's a SEO thought leader, really does great stuff in the SEO space. Ryan Stewart. So we're wrapping up his book, and that was a project that started last um early fall in the same place as you. He's like, you know, head up against the wall, really doesn't like to write, um, but has to finish this book, and his book was actually pretty much just pulling the contents out of his course. He has a mega successful the blueprint training course. Is that yes?

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yeah, he's a Miami guy. I was like, why do I know Ryan Stewart? I'm like, he's a Miami guy. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

We're neighbors. He's from he's from Boston. Oh he's been to Bobby's house for lobster. Yeah, I have not met him, but I I have met him at an event or something, but I've reached out to him and said, hey, dude, we're local. We need to link up. I've been seeing your videos and they're hysterical. That's so funny. This world's tiny.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

I know, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Kevin Bacon's got nothing on us, six degrees. Yeah. I just dated myself there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

But so we're wrapping up his book, and it was the same place you were in. He's like, really trying to create a book out of the course content. So this uh books do amazing things, particularly to sell courses if you have like packaged digital training. Books are like, oh my gosh, I'd have to be payful for that because I've done it with my courses. So it was like, oh yeah, no-brainer, I've done this twice over already. I know how to do this. Yeah, let's take this book on. So I a content hacker, what I do is I've pulled like the best of the best from ExpressWriters, my top four to five writers, and that's all I work with, and we do stuff like that. We write books and then we write long form content. So 30,000 word book, we we took the bulk of his course, we watched all the videos, created content, and it's ghostwritten, of course, right? So this is Ryan's book, not my book, to make it clear. Yeah, yeah. So it's all ghostwritten, it's for him, his content. But we have a 35,000 word manual now, manuscript, manual, manuscript ready to go for Amazon. So that'll come out probably in three weeks. That's exciting. You know, of this archive document in his folder that needed to become a book to hey Julia, Facebook Messenger. You think you can really help me write this book? Like, yeah, sure, I'll take on my first book writing project. I've been wanting to do this for years. Yay. So here we are. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

So he's your first project you've done.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

The first book project.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Yeah, for the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

And it was like a dream project because I know what to do. He left me alone. He's like, just work your magic. I'm not gonna babysit you. And I'm like, thank you, Jesus. I hate babysitting, I work really well on my own. Right. So it was like a dream project to work on. And I want to do like one of those a year. I don't want to you really when you're writing a book, you can't you can't do a lot of those. Right. So I want to do like one or two clients a month, maybe one or two books a year. But yeah, that that's something I'm going into more is how do we create content that really lasts instead of like, you know, just an online web page that maybe gets read tomorrow, maybe doesn't get read in five years ever again. Books, on the other hand, do they last. It's the best type of content you could create if you you know have money and you're ready to go all in creating content. It's not easy and probably not your best first project when it comes to content, but it's completely worth it. The ROI from a book is massive.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

It really, really is. It's your new business card, my my publisher once told me. And he also said, you know, when you go into a meeting, not every meeting and every networking event, you're not walking with a backpack full of books, but strategic meetings where you really want the business. You uh you you show up and you at the end of the meeting, you sign a book and you take a picture with them. And that book will always be on their desk or on their bookshelf. Like people don't throw books away, they throw CDs away, they throw uh pamphlets away, white papers and whatever crap you would leave behind. But rarely, in fact, I I threw a book out last week. I felt kind of dirty. But um uh yeah, it was you know, it was some Instagram expert that I'm sure is not an Instagram expert with all like irrelevant, like outdated information. So I was like, I have a decluttering. Anyway, I won't mention any names. Um I I don't even know who it was, but uh it is it has become our new business card and and the ability to have your instant credibility. You know, I don't care what you say or or where, like I was a single dad who barely got out of high school, like single dad at 21, barely I got out of high school and became an entrepreneur, published author. Are you out of your tree? I never thought that was going to be a reality, but when I'm actually, you know, it's like, hey, look at me now. My and everything really came full circle when I did my book signing at a local bookstore here in Miami that does every famous person's book signing. It's called Books and Books. And uh uh we need to get you down here for book signing. Is Miami on is Miami on your book list?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Uh could be.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

Yeah, I need to, yeah. My my uh I the my buddy Mitchell, he's got like he's like a literary, like uh uh what do they call it? Legend in the literary space. Uh Mitchell, who owns books and books here. Yeah, yeah. We need to we need to circle back with that after uh after the uh a lot of cool things have happened there. I met Gary V there back in 2002 and spent an hour and a half with them and had a video team call me the day before and say, hey, we've seen your work. We want to work with you. We did Russell Simmons book signing at the same location. And I was like, what? And uh Damon John's a buddy of mine. I met him pre-Shark Tank days, and he did his book stop here too uh for the power of broke. So this is a main stop here. So they had, I think I had uh somebody who had their book out. Somebody had their book. I think it was Randy Zuckerberg put a children's book out around the same time my book came out, and I saw books and books at a gig that I at an MC gig that I had on Miami Beach. And I had given the lady my card. She goes, Oh, if you're an author and you have a book, well, we can totally do your book signing. I'm like, really? Like at books and books? Like you do your book signing at books and books, like because they have a huge room and it's like this rustic, like, and it's got a cafe outside in the back and a little bar area. Like it is a whole children's area, all wood floors with the ladder climb, you know, so you can get the books up at the top and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

Yeah, it's better than Barnes and Noble.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Way better than Barnes and Noble. No, this is your local, you know, your your local bookstore type deal. They got three locations down here. I know four locations here in Miami. But um, they hit me up and they said uh we have Monday, March 16th available. And it was like January at the time. And uh I'm like, Monday, what else? I'm like, look at me. Like I'm just lucky to even have the opportunity. I'm like, are there any other days available? Like, we don't have anything until June. I go, I'll take it. So um, yeah, I had the opportunity to do my book signing at Books and Books and have my mom and my sister and my daughter in the front row. And and then the cool part about book signing is that they they market it to their database and people, literary, you know, fans, people that like books. So it was a packed house. I mean, not as packed as when Gary was there. It was like standing room only, but I had a full room, and they had just signed a grant deal with a uh foundation here called the Knight Foundation to be able to live stream their author's book signings. So they live streamed it. So I got HD video of the replay. I'll have to send it to you. So I was able to tell the whole like story, and it just came full circle to me when I, you know, but the power of a book, I guess that's the how I got off on this tangent here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

You have a real story, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

That's I mean, yours isn't exactly fake. So so um, so all your information is gonna be included in the show notes so everyone can get a copy of the book. If you're watching this video, because I put the replay up on uh YouTube, I get my lighting right here, you can see the video. Uh I swear the name of the book is Woman Rising, a true story. My friend Julia McCoy escaped from a cold at 21 years old and uh went on to do great things and is still continuing to do great things. Um, fell in love, got married, uh, put the husband on the team, uh, had a baby, and you guys are living the dream right now out just outside of Austin, Texas, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Fantastic. Well, you know, it's such a pleasure to be connected with you. I'm so glad that I decided to jump into the comments and say, hey, I'd love to hop on the conversation and and chat with you about mental health. We didn't really dive into the you know the particulars of mental health in this episode per se. You'll have to come back, but I you know, it was more appropriate to you know, to talk about, you know, your journey was clearly a challenge to anyone's mental health and to anyone's depression and to anyone's self-worth and to be able to hear your story of triumph. And I don't think you just snapped out of it. I think you you met your husband and you had a and you had a way of being able to not not ignore what took place, but to be able to process that. And he was like a gift to be able to say, hey, I'm here as a you know, as a as a sounding board uh and a shoulder to crying to process through all this, you know, this stuff. And then you also mentioned that he was the one that really got you go got you to go back to church. You thought you'd never do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

So Yes. I really thought when I left I wouldn't ever step foot in a church again. Like I was 90% sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

It was just like Dad's church was the only one, and his church was a place of you know terror, and I was you know, church. Right. So Josh, he just was like the first Sunday that I was out and we were hanging out, he's like, Okay, let's just watch Netflix. And for one, I never watched Netflix before because that was taboo, TV was taboo. What's Netflix? And then I was like, Oh, what's Netflix? I love it. I'm 21 years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like movies whenever I want, like just press the button. That's great. That's great. Yeah, you're like, I'm never going back to church. God's like, watch this. God's like, hold my wine. Yeah. Um well, Julia, again, thanks so much for your time and for sharing your story. I I not only respect um your your your transparency, but your willingness to want to tell your story knowing that someone out there is going to read it, hear about it, and hopefully have some sort of mindset shift uh or or or dose of courage that they never had before. I really truly honestly believe that individuals like yourself with true real stories of of triumph from going from trauma to triumph. Um that could have been that could have been the title of the book, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Oh my gosh. I was just thinking, I need to work that in the car.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Yeah, hey, invoices in the mail. Yeah. Um, well, this is great. And I want to talk about my book now. Now Ryan's got me all jealous. And now that you only want to take a couple projects on a year, I was like, we need to have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

Well, we're wrapping up his in two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Hey, podcasts suck if you don't have one coming to a bookshelf near you. All right, excellent. And where where where do you connect with people most online? Is it LinkedIn? Is it is it on your on your um is it on is it on the gram, as my as my teenager would say?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

That um it would be between the gram and Twitter. Those are my two favorites. Really? Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

Yeah, okay, cool. So not not not big on we we met on LinkedIn, didn't we? Or no? Maybe Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

I think Facebook. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Yeah, yeah. And then LinkedIn. It's usually the other way, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

So much, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:23

I know, but it's amazing for content.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

All the spammers are gonna weed themselves out. As soon as you get a spam message, just delete and block the person because they're an animal. That's what I mean. And they have no consideration for anybody's personal space. They're the person that's always in your bubble. Always in their.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

I'm glad to hear you say that because I've heard some people say, what? You're deleting and blocking them? That's not nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

It's called sanity. Thank you. Thank you. You're not allowed to take my happiness away because you want to send me your, you want to throw up via direct message on LinkedIn. No, they're all gonna be, it's gonna continue, you know, it's gonna, the the the the cream will quite continue to rise to the top, I honestly believe. But there is, you know, LinkedIn's about engagement, not your engagement. It's about how you're engaging on other posts and commenting and liking and sharing and being involved with the conversation. People don't understand that. They think it's all about their content. It has nothing to do with their content. Well, it does. It's about 20% of a post you're gonna write, and then about 80% of your engagement. So if you're listening to this and you're doing LinkedIn wrong, and how do I know if I'm doing LinkedIn wrong? Well, go look at a post. If your mom is the only one that liked it and she's not even on LinkedIn, well, then you know, there's there's a challenge with that. All right, Julia, we're we're out of time. We could probably talk, you know, you know, we we'd we'd talk a whole book out here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:32

I know, right? And then I can transcribe and publish it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

Yeah. Hey, you heard it first here. Well, listen, um, like I said before, come back soon and keep doing what you're doing. It it matters, it's encouraging, it's inspiring, and I freaking love connecting with rock stars like yourself. So uh ladies and gentlemen, Julia McCoy, a woman uh it's Woman Rising, a true story, number one on Amazon right now, by the way. And this is uh we're recording this in February of 2020, whenever you're listening to it. But we she it came out Monday, right to the right to the top of the charts, ladies and gentlemen. So all right, one final question, then we're out of here. So let's say that we're booked for we're both booked for the same gig. You're there speaking, um, shedding your uh sharing your story on stage and uh sharing your content hacks with the world. And um I'm the MC for the event, and we get done with the event, and there's like a speaker, like you know, dinner and like you know, mixer and whatever, and we end up doing some sort of activity, and then the group comes back to the hotel, and we're at the hotel bar like late night, everybody wants to get a uh, you know, nightcap, we've had a great night out, and I spot a karaoke bar across the way in the hotel, and I'm like, Julia, you want to sing a duet? Um what what song do you think we'd sing?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Okay, so this is tricky because I've only been out in modern culture eight years, and there's a lot of music I miss, but I still know some good music.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

Oh, let's see. Let's see how it's gonna be. This is an interesting answer. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

I got it. Are you ready for this one? Yes. I don't know. I think you're ready for this.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

I was born ready. Give it to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

The final countdown.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

Oh, that's my I used to sing at the top of my lungs like as a kid. And I would dress up as Rambo for for like just for fun. No, I'm kidding, I'm I'm kidding for ha for Halloween, and I would the final countdown, it still comes on, and I I have a when it comes on, I have serious radio in my car, and it all like crank it up. I drive a yellow Camaro fits the personality, right? So I have like a Will Farrell moment in like old school. It's like, you want a beer, honey? No, it's cool. I got a nice tea here, you know. It's like totally rocking out, but yeah, the final countdown, uh, Europe, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

Yes, Europe's the final countdown. It's a funny story. My parents who were against rock music didn't believe in it. Um, I actually learned how to play that song on the keyboard in their house in front of them, passed it off as a 1500s medieval tune, and they were like, Oh Julia!

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

Oh my goodness. You should totally make a video and and re-rig re like redo that. Like reenact it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:10

That thing will go viral.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

That's a good random question.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

I appreciate that. Well, we are out of time, Julia. I thanks again for coming by and come back soon and let's get this second book of mine written, huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

All right, I'll talk to you soon. Thanks again, Julia.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:25

Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Beyond the Story Podcast. Be sure to appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. Be sure to appreciate it. Signing off from the podcast, launchlab.com studios. We'll talk to you next time.