[LinkedIn Expert Series] Sally Illingworth - LinkedIn Media Personality and Influence Strategist

SPEAKER_02 0:29

What's happening, ladies and gentlemen? Hey, welcome back to the show. Maybe welcome to the show because it's your first time here either way. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to hang out with me and meet some friends that I meet along the way. My guest this week, Sally Ellingworth is a LinkedIn media personality coming to us all the way from Sydney, Australia. It was not easy tracking Sally down based on the time difference. She's like a day ahead. But we made it happen. It was 1 a.m. her time, 8 a.m. my time. Hey, when you commit to something, it happens. Sally is absolutely crushing the LinkedIn game. Yet another interview here in our LinkedIn Expert series. Let's not waste any more time. Friends, please help me. Welcome to the show. Sally Illingworth, what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Not much. Just enjoying uh well, I'm excited for this conversation video at one o'clock in the morning pre-day time.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Well, I'm excited that you stayed up for this interview. I I really, really am. And can I just state for the record, we we just got done talking about this, but uh pinning down another human being that's on the other side of the planet is is no easy task by any means at all. So it took us a couple weeks to get this pinned down, but thanks for staying up and uh thank thanks for your time. Um you and I connected, uh you and I connected like well, today we officially connected on LinkedIn. Whoa, whoa. Yeah, we got she accepted.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I was like, oh, I didn't even accept these connection requests. I was like, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:54

I was like, you know what? There's no one to blame because uh it's it's there's you just got done talking about this on your live. There is a lot of noise out there, and it's just so difficult to not have something um fall through the cracks. So I'm excited to have you here. I told you that I had kind of an unplanned LinkedIn series that I've put together here uh with a few other uh LinkedIn influencers and people that are just crushing the LinkedIn game, and you're you're part of that crew. So um again, I'm stoked to have you here and I'm fired up to find out you know what your story is. So let's back up for everybody uh real quick and and and help my audience better understand uh where you started. Where did you know what did you did you go to school for marketing? Did you have a marketing job? How did you how did you get to present day where you woke up one day and said, you know what, LinkedIn is is my obvious move. So if you can kind of paint a picture and give us a 30,000-foot perspective of Sally.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I know it's it's actually a really interesting conversation because uh, and like we were sort of speaking about this just a little bit earlier about your daughter being an introvert and so forth. Like my background is like I was never on the front side of things, right? Like I was like the background chief, I do all the Excel spreadsheets, you know, like I'm a geek like that.

SPEAKER_05 3:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

And like that's sort of where I started in my career, like holistically, if you like. Um, so I started my career very young, and then I sort of got a lot into sort of say operations management, project management, training and development, um, doing a lot of um, I suppose, uh program development, if you like, as well. So going, okay, you know, what programs do we need to develop to be able to train these people in these roles and so forth? And uh interestingly, it was all sort of in the pizza landscape. So I come from a pizza background.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Um anyway, so pizza background. Did you design pizza? Ladies and gentlemen, the conversation's already off to an amazing start here. All right, we're gonna have to talk more about pizza because holy cow. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I love pizza. Oh, I'm upset.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

People didn't like pizza, I don't trust them.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

No, I know everyone's gonna have pizza, right? I always say in the pizza industry. I'm like, you when someone I joke around and someone would be like, who's the target market for the pizza product? Is telling like, well, everyone, like who doesn't pizza? There's two types of people in the world the people who eat pizza, and then the people who alone and they pretend they don't eat pizza, right? Everyone loves a pizza.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Those are cat lovers, yeah, I'm convinced.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah. So that's sort of like the background of my career, if you like, and that sort of um, you know, evolved and whatnot. But when it comes to LinkedIn, um, it was sort of going, it would be almost about two years ago now. Um, and there were quite sort of a couple of things. Like one, I was feeling a little bit flat in my career. Like I get bored very easily. If I'm not being challenged, if I'm not learning something new, I get very frustrated. And I'm just like, yep, okay, what's next? I need something else, give me something harder, right? Right. And then the other aspect of things, so there was that sort of like personal development side, if you like, where I was just feeling a bit dull. Um, and then the other side of things was I was quite fascinated in the social media landscape. And I'm sort of seeing these people do all sorts of things online, and I'm like, why are people spending so much time watching these videos online? Like, what do they not have a job to do? Like, do they have not don't have plenty to go on places they need to be and so forth? And so I started to get this like little urge to go, maybe I test it and see what happens and see what I can learn about this, right? Because I like to make sense of things and I like to um you know make things seem logical, right? Which is difficult with say social media and content consumption because it's emotional, it's highly emotional for people, and even the processing of creating content is highly emotional. So, anyway, I had those sort of two things, right? Like I wanted to, I wanted to challenge, and then the other thing was I was just like, why are people watching videos online? And so I said, okay, I'm gonna give it a go and I'm gonna start putting videos out and whatnot and just see what happens. No idea what I was gonna talk about. So I just started with things from experience. And the reason I chose LinkedIn was because it felt like the safest option because I'd already been on Facebook, especially because I moved out of home when I was like 15. So that was how I kept in touch with the family. We always post updates and I'd be like, oh, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. So on Facebook, for example, which was probably my most active platform, I was like, Well, I can't go on there and post videos talking about stuff because my mom's just gonna come on and laugh at me. My brother's just gonna make silly jokes. I was like, okay, I'm gonna go to LinkedIn because I don't know anyone there. Um, and then sort of to cut a long story short, I just started putting videos out, didn't realize the video feature was new. I had absolutely no idea at all. Um, so then obviously there were certain benefits to that from an the algorithm's perspective. Um, and then I really just started to sort of build a lot of traction and whatnot because I sort of kept that out, was consistent, um, you know, sort of and one of the earlier people that would do videos in a very sort of real and sincere and genuine way because I didn't know any different. Um, and then I thought I was doing something wrong because people would be like, Why are you wearing your Nike shorts on LinkedIn? And I'd be like, I don't know, I was just wearing them today. Like, does it matter?

unknown 6:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So um, yeah, that's sort of how it all started. It was, and then it's just become something so much bigger than I ever actually planned for.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

I you know what I now I'm like, where did I first? Because you always remember some sort of piece of content or something, but I always remember it was it was who's this blonde Australian girl in workout gear with incredible energy. Like you want to like you, you like jump out and go, hey, listen to this. I have something to talk about and tell you about that's going to help you. And I every time I saw that, and that's exactly when I'm like, okay, this the she's my people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

So um I joke about that, they'd be like, This is what happens when you drink too much coffee, like she's too energetic, whatever. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, I drank a lot of coffee, but I'm actually just excited about what I want to tell you guys because I thought of something and I just want to tell you about it.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yes, I totally remember that those were I I want to say they're they were almost like you've you film it, you filmed a lot of videos like in your in your apartment. It seemed like in a like a living room.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was where I don't at some point last year. But it's crazy to see that the growth over, you know, it's just been like two years here, which is just it's been explosive growth for for a lot of LinkedIn influencers, a majority of them, they're like, Yeah, I got on in like, I don't know, March 2018, and here we are.

unknown 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, it's been absolutely massive. And that's one of the things, like, I'm not sure about too many others, but I know me, like I sort of went in naively. I had no idea. Um, and because I wasn't even in that marketing space, you know, I wasn't looking for work or anything like that. It was literally just a passion project, right? And then I sort of discovered this gold mine, and then I started paying attention to things. And I'm like, okay, so I am learning about certain things you can do to get someone to watch a video, you know, how you, for example, craft the copy and all that sort of stuff, what the thumbnail is for the video, you know, are you looking weird in the newsfeed and stuff like that? And then I started to dig deeper and go, well, how does this compare to other social media platforms? Like, because the views people are getting here are just astronomical by default. And then you've got people complaining about Facebook. So that's when I started to sort of heavily invest my time into understanding social media, all that sort of stuff, because I really had no idea. I mean, I was selling pizzas and doing strategic project management. I mean, that was just and running numbers in Excel spreadsheets, look at profitability and productivity analytics, like it was just not my thing. I had no idea. And then I was like, wow, this LinkedIn thing is massive, and a lot of people need to jump onto this and actually start using it.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

So, did you leave? You ended up leaving your job?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, so like I was in the pizza industry still up until June last year because I was sort of involved in multiple capacities. I was at like a say strategic level corporately, I owned a pizza shop, um, and then I helped, you know, sort of franchisees and all that sort of stuff with their individual businesses. So I was very sort of um heavily involved in that space. So it wasn't a matter of just leaving a job or anything, you know, I had so many like ties to cut, really. Um, so in the process, like when I started that LinkedIn journey, and then I remember I got contacted by two highly reputable and large companies in Australia, probably about three months in, saying, Hey, can you come and help our marketing team sort of do this? And I was like, um, I'm gonna be completely honest, I actually have no idea what I'm doing right now. And so I was then I was like, when they came to me and they're like large, large companies, I was like, shit, I need to reverse engineer this stuff and start figuring out what I'm actually doing and how you can pull some structure around that because people want to know. Um, so then I started to do that and take on different pieces of work and so forth and so forth and started tackling that market. Um, but given the the sort of extent of the ties I had in the food, retail, and franchising industry, um, it's not something I could just drop over diet, you know, I wasn't just an employee. So sort of had to manage that and then started building um, I suppose this other business of mine on the side as much as I could manage it all, if you like. Um, but at the same time, very much appreciating. I was like, you know, I'm still learning all of this. So in that sense, I'm not just gonna look for quick cash grabs because people are willing to throw cash. I really want to understand what's going on here and then figure out how best to offer that service to people. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

So we're an interesting learning. No, it really, it really, really well, you know, we live in a time where going and um saying yes to something and then going and figuring it out is very, very common. Before that, you know, back in the day, if you will, that was called uh not being prepared. But sometimes that that is what serves us. Yeah, I think that's terrible advice. I was told that for years. Um, and I did, I did in my early days when I started. I, you know, I had to ride my my skateboard to a networking event with my fake Rolex. It's like I own I walk in there like I own the place. And uh I think you know, I think the better advice, Sally, than fake it till you make it is act as if. Act as if I love it. There, act as if you know you you you are where you want to be, uh, you are who you want to be, etc. So, so walk me through what you did when that that company there in in Australia reached out and said, Hey, whatever you're doing, can you come do it for us? Did you end up contracting with them?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

No, so the one of them I ended up delivering some work for them, um, but just by training their marketing team, if you like. So it wasn't an ongoing thing. I didn't have the capacity to deal with that. Um, and I didn't feel confident to actually sort of commit to that. I was like, I really don't feel like I'm actually the right person to help you with this yet. Um, so what I did was we, you know, they engaged me, I delivered a session for their whole marketing team. And the other one, um, I sort of just was very honest with them and they are extremely like a massive, massive company. And I said, look, I'll give you guys a bit of like sort of strategy and stuff like that, but I'm certainly not going to put my hand up and say I want to do this because me as an individual, like beyond anything, I I hate feeling incompetent and I hate letting people down and like I can't deliver. Um, and then in hindsight, obviously, you know, further down the track, when you eventually sort of really figure it out and what's going on and you get super clear on this is how I can really help people replicate or do something similar to what I've done personally, then you're like, shit, I should have just figured this out quicker, you know. But you know, that's just the nature of the beast. Um, and I think regardless as to whether the sort of disregarding the fact that I didn't go ahead and just commit and dive in and go, I'm just gonna figure it out. I really didn't actually have the capacity to do that from a time perspective because of how many things I was already managing. Um, but what that really did for me, um, which is you know really sort of a blessing in disguise in hindsight, was by those two companies approaching me, that was like the light switch. Like what you're doing, there is something here. You know, this is not um just you having some sort of passion project to keep yourself entertained and making yourself look silly online by dancing or something like that. There is actually something here. Um, and for that, like that's probably the best thing that happened in the early days on LinkedIn for me.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

So when you've when when the well I I totally get that's totally happened to me before as well, as far as certain scenarios or situations that may not turn into an opportunity, but they were a different type of opportunity. The opportunity was flipping the switch on and saying, maybe I need to take a closer look at this. And I did the same thing with my podcasting um solution, is I went back nine years ago and said, What's the first thing you did when you started a podcast? Great, what's the next thing that you did? And I started to document that process years later, you know, and I do look at it now. Um not with the podcasting stuff, I'm not as uh regretful for not getting started earlier. I think actually my timing is perfect right now. Uh suppose 2016 is a few years back, but um, you know, now that it is popular, I feel like I've got a slight advantage to you know understanding, you know, how the whole process works. So when you started uh when you start with when you started putting together or putting your thoughts on on paper and and conceptualizing a solution, did you then start bringing clients on? And what what what did that solution look like that you uh put uh you know a pen to paper with?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah, so there's sort of multiple solutions, if you like, but the first thing I started doing was being more receptive and open to helping the people that were contacting me. So there were for there's for example, say the individual end of the market, to people coming to me going, okay, well, I'm looking for my next job or whatever the scenario is. And so I started to play in that space a bit because obviously the needs, if you like, and then the strategy for say an individual versus an enterprise, like they're quite different, right? Um, there's different constraints in both scenarios and so forth. Um, and so I started to just entertain those things a little bit more and go, okay, you're a business, you're looking for some advice, right? Um, so I started to play in that space and do a lot of project-based stuff, you know, deliver a lot of workshops and whatnot. Um, and then the same with individuals, working sort of one-on-one coaching capacity, just test different things. Um, and then even sort of beyond that, started working with different groups who were sort of inviting in to say speak at something and whatnot, you know, because then people start coming to you as the LinkedIn guru, and you're like, oh, I'm a least.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

I wasn't ready for all this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

You know, and um so then those some of those groups, then we started working on concepts to pull together events and stuff like that. Because I was like, you know what? If I can get a hundred people in a room, you know, every three months, talk about something to do with LinkedIn, open it up to QA, um, and based on the demographics of the audience, you know, figure out what their questions are. Then I just reverse engineer their questions and go, okay, you know, what are the most prolific questions? And therefore, then you build solutions around that, right? Because often, you know, even today, like it'll happen now, where we'll host a LinkedIn event and deliver content. And when it comes to the Q ⁇ A, every question that gets answered is not the sort of question you would anticipate, you know, because particularly as say service professionals and whatnot, we focus a lot on our expertise and the service we can offer. But often you'll find that the target client, like they're not even at that stage yet, you know, they don't, they're not even at the stage where they even really know what their problem is or where the opportunities are. So um in the early days, that's what I started to do because again, I just didn't have the capacity to like really just full-time dive into that. Um, so really I was managing already three very large things. One of them was a business and all that, managing that from a distance and stuff. Um so that's how I kick-started it and then sort of got to the point where I was like, okay, as I start managing other things, reorganizing, restructuring those things that I already sort of had going on, um, then it was just a matter of working into, you know, slowly turning it into something that's a bit more full-time, if you like, um, and a bit more of a business that's scalable and so forth. So that's really sort of how it all came about. Because the other thing as well is, you know, I think for me, um, because it wasn't something that was planned, you've obviously got to deal with that emotionally as well, because then you're sort of thinking, like, well, okay, well, I didn't expect this to be happening, but there's so much opportunity and demand there. I mean, is this something I want to deal with? You know, is this a business I want to build? Is this something I want to grow? Um, especially when you've had your, you know, your heart and soul invested into one brand, if you like, for eight years prior. Um, also managing that, and it's just, it was um yeah, a lot to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Sorry. I bet my.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

So last year for the whole of uh yeah, sort of 2019, January onwards, I just staged sort of you know, wrapping things up in multiple capacities with a lot of the other stuff I was still doing um to slowly sort of make way for more of this workflow um and really just sort of growing this business, if you like. So yeah. No, I don't, I don't. So that was um, I had that for about four years. Yeah, about four years. So that was the first thing I sort of wrapped up, exited, and then started managing the other things. And then it was yeah, so come June last year, and um, because I was still sort of supporting in say a strategic capacity, and then I was like, no, I just need to, you know, you can't sort of um you're trying to juggle too many things, you know. And I think I um I it's sort of one of those things where it was like my time's done with that aspect of my career, if you like. Um, so sort of give yourself the opportunity to to move on and and venture into something else. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

So bring us to present day. What's what's your core, what's your core focus at the moment and or core offering and what are you doing for clients these days? Now here we are almost a couple months short of a year, I guess, which would have been what the beginning of winter for you, right? June 2019?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah, I'm not good with like seasons and we're opposites.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I know, I do, I know that much. That's about it.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Um Yeah, so yeah, well, you're right. What are we now? March. Yeah, wow. Time goes so quick.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Um it's interesting. Like I still do a lot of the um project-based stuff, you know, a lot of workshop-based things and whatnot. And they're particularly good in terms of generating leads and bringing clients on board. Um, you know, even larger scale events, um, I mean, they're a really great way to sort of just, you know, get that sort of first introduction, that first sort of touch point and engagement, um, and then still pick up business pretty well from that.

SPEAKER_04 19:38

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Um, but the thing for me at the moment, like I said, there's sort of two key elements, or probably three actually, that I'm really focused on. So one is a lot of my time is tied up in sort of higher level um project-based work. Um, so beyond LinkedIn, right? Like I think you know, LinkedIn's very much become just sort of um a component of what I focus on. So I spend a lot of time like strategic sort of communications plans and stuff like that, working through that, um, particularly with different corporate clients. Um so a focus on say executive leadership teams and really just trying to figure out how they can become key opinion leaders in the industries and in the spaces and in the conversations they need to, um particularly for ones that are in say challenging industries like tech, right? Or they've got particularly uh particular sort of say political challenges in their space, and so they really need to try and own that narrative, right? And really be a part of that narrative. So that's a large part of my uh work, and I really enjoy that stuff because it's quite challenging. Um and then another large part of it is sort of on the uh sort of agency style side, if you like, um, in terms of say like marketing as a service, right? Like that's really what it's developed into. Early days it was sort of um module-based service, if you like. So you just sort of support clients ongoing with particular elements of social strategy beyond LinkedIn. Um so including say Facebook, Instagram, so forth. Um, but in the last couple of months, we've really we've really started to venture into like sort of yeah, holistic marketing solution, including like websites and all that sort of stuff. Um so there's that part, and that's a beast in its own, you know, and very difficult to sort of um manage and build and whatnot. Um, but it is a growing space, interestingly, you know. I think a lot of say, particularly sort of like say medium-sized businesses, um, they're finding that it's it's probably a good option in some cases to really outsource almost that marketing function for themselves.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Um, and then the other aspect of things that I spend a lot of time doing now and and all that sort of stuff off the back of building a personal brand is um, you know, and that's sort of almost a business in its own, is that you know, the speaking gigs and all that sort of stuff and the contributions to different, whether it's you know, published media and whatnot, um, I mean that's quite a bit to manage. Um, so yeah, spend a decent amount of time doing that. So just kind of juggle all the balls like a clown, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, it's definitely well, I don't think there's ever been an easier time to build a brand and simultaneously build a personal brand at the same time. Because uh you know the personal branding aspect is is now more relevant than ever. I I always say uh that you know 10 years ago, even 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, like if you had a sales job and then you had a side gig or a side hustle, like that's not okay. Like you're you're cheating on your job in those days. If you don't have a brand and I can't look you up and find more about you and and your content gives me a reason to hire you, then you're probably not going to be um you know an ideal candidate. So uh just exciting times uh to to be alive and to build a brand. There's never been an easier time. Uh I believe our personal brand.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Well, I talk a lot about now, yeah, which is what you're saying, you know, like that idea of like sort of having a portfolio career, you know, like yeah, not you don't do sort of one job. And even if you look at it from say like the corporate level, um, you know, I know a lot of the people I deal with, the groups I deal with, you know, internally, like they're looking at exploring what does the future of work look like, you know, like and they to get really technical that you know they look at it as like on balance sheet, off-balance sheet labor, you know, like how we uh uh uh choosing these resources and where are we spending our money? Um, so I think you know it's one, it's opportunistic, especially for employees, I think, you know, because it gives them that that comfort, right? Where they it's more acceptable to have multiple revenue streams and be doing multiple things. Um, but it's also very difficult at the same time, and you know, it's also difficult for the enterprises because how do you then hold, you know, how does that impact accountability, right? Like if you work for a company, say, um, in any capacity, and then you also have your side hustle and your brand and all that. I mean, how do you manage the accountability and whatnot to ensure that they're actually doing their job at the times and whatever that they're supposed to do? It's so it's a big challenge. Pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

A lot of moving parts. I said there's a lot of moving parts with that. But the upside is is far, you know, I I know several uh we I mean I run 99% of the stuff we do virtual. So um there's a bit of babysitting involved, but you know, it's not as you know, much as you know, babysitting a sales team. No, so uh most people are completely in the dark on what's going on on LinkedIn. Yeah, I'd say the average Joe, anybody who's in business that says, Yes, I'm on LinkedIn. I had, you know, but I I haven't been active on LinkedIn. I was one of those people until last year, until I said, Well, these individuals are crushing it, and I need to better understand how this is all happening.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

And so were you using LinkedIn a lot before at that time when you identified that? Were you just like what they call a LinkedIn lurker and you're just sort of watching everyone?

SPEAKER_02 24:37

So so well, no. I I started my account in 2004 and um like right after MySpace days, and then um Gary V's my mentor. I've been following his stuff for you know 11 years now, and every single thing that he predicts um happens. I mean a majority of them, and he's just LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

And you heard him say LinkedIn. Actually, can I say for the record, I was when I first heard him say everyone's gonna get on LinkedIn, I was like, Yeah, it's about time you tuned in, Gary. Of course everyone's gonna buddy.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Like, right, right, right, right, right. Exactly, exactly. So I started to follow.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

No one listens to like me or anyone, like, but when Gary says it, it's real, you've got to get it on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right, right. So um, you know, try to follow his lead with that and spend more time, and then I start to see this LinkedIn local, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, and then I Shay popped up in my feed, and then you popped up in my feed, and then Richard Moore and Judy Fox, and I'm like, this I like their content and I like them, and I've gotten an opportunity to build a relationship through those interviews, which has been great, and uh to to really better understand what's going on. But I think the common denominator of the question that I ask everybody that's a LinkedIn influencer is is that uh what should what should people be doing that they're not currently doing on LinkedIn? And and my immediate response of being a newbie as far as like telling anybody what they should be doing on LinkedIn because I'm almost part of their their group um is is creating uh excuse me, is uh it's an 80-20 rule, right? If you had to pick a number, 80-20 rule. 80% of of of your uh of your LinkedIn strategy should be engaging and connecting with people, connecting on engaging on other people's content and engaging, and then the other 20% is your actual content, right? Because one thing doesn't work without the other. If you're not engaging with other people's content, you're not connecting with new people, no people, you're not piquing people's interest to figure out and view your profile and see what you're all about, and then potentially connect with you and hopefully have a conversation that leads to some sort of opportunity. Um are you in alignment with that? I mean, this is what my like synopsis has been thus far. Um it's not about how cool your videos are. Um and it's not about how perfect they are. Nobody cares. They care about what you're saying and what you're talking about. Um done is better than perfect, right? What you know, what what are your thoughts on what people should be doing that they're not currently doing, and maybe some of the things that you teach at these workshops that you've done for the newbies, if you were, the people that have no idea what they should be doing but want to do something.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah, well, I think um I think you make a good point. Like before I share some of my thoughts, like, you know, about say videos not being perfect, I think that's a massive thing. You know, I find that that is the biggest thing that holds most of us back, right? Like, and people wouldn't believe it. But even me, I will record a video, and it's very rare that I'll do more than one take because then I start overthinking it, then I start trying to almost script it and go, Well, I've got to say this, I've got to say that. But even someone like me who I've been doing it for almost two years, you know, like I still get nervous. I still go, oh, my head looks really shiny in that one, you know, my chin and all that looks a bit puffy to that.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Neutrogena coming through.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah, I can have to invest in that. And it's like everyone feels that, right? And it's completely human to feel. I mean, no one's we're not naturally designed to want to sit on a camera, right? It's just the way that we can communicate now, then we should be leveraging it. Um, but I think in terms of what people should be doing on LinkedIn, say you're a newbie, right? Like, one, I always like to preface it was like, there's so much shit you should be doing. There's like a list this big. Um, and it doesn't matter who I'm working with, you know, who I'm coaching, whatever, or even like say you're developing a strategy and people just think it's as simple as one, two, three, four, five, that's it. So no, there's a whole bunch of stuff you could be doing. Um, but I think certainly to start, one thing is like you're gonna get sort of clear. Um, and sometimes you have to sort of just start taking action to get a lot clearer on it. But trying to figure out as early as you can, like what do you want to achieve, right? Because that is really going to influence what you should be doing on the platform. Um, because everyone uses it for a different reason. Um, and it's also going to influence like what your activities actually look like. Like, for example, your content creation, and that strategy is going to be quite different if you're looking for a job, right? Versus you're trying to generate leads or you're trying to promote an event, even like so. You really need to understand at any given point in time what's my objective, like what do I want to achieve? And I think generally speaking, like there's two sort of, I suppose, like activity categories I look at. One of them is like the very sort of like high intent base, which is sort of your traditional like outreach strategies, like, okay, I'm here to generate leads or get people to an event or get people to come and check something out on my website or whatever the scenario is. And that's very much about that engagement and initiating that high intent conversation. Um, and then you've got like interest-based stuff, which is okay, I'm going to, for example, deploy content assets and I'm trying to attract people that are interested in that conversation, right? Um, because it's going to add value to them, it's going to help them, whatever the scenario is. So, generally speaking, like that's sort of like two different angles to like uh LinkedIn activity. Um, but when it comes to like balancing it, you know, and you mentioned like how much, so for example, how do you prioritize engaging with everyone else's stuff, say versus um just focusing on your own? And I think it's interesting in the sense that there's there's probably no one rule for everyone, like I always say. Um, I think one, it depends on where you're starting that. Like, for example, if you're a complete newbie and you just set up your profile today, how you tackle that is gonna be very different. If you've been on there for 10 years, you've got maybe uh thousand, two thousand connections, but you just know all those people and you're looking to expand. I mean, the strategy is going to be completely different as to how you start and where you can best leverage and all that sort of stuff. Um, but I know for me, right, in the in the early days, this is probably the best way to, I suppose, show maybe how I like sort of prioritized it at different points, um, you know, because I think it's a growth stage thing. Like it really depends on where you're at in your growth. Um, like for example, if you look at, and now I'm sort of like jumping all over the place, but if you look at say like the state of my profile as it currently stands, you know, like because of the point it's grown to, there's now a lot more workload in terms of engaging with people through comments on my own stuff, right? So then the question becomes well, how do you prioritize that versus going out and making sure you're engaging on other people's content, you know? So you need to be able to manage that, um, you know, and some people outsource that and all that sort of stuff. Um, but certainly in the earlier days, it is important that you do guide, you engage with other people and you really prioritize that. Um, and the other thing that's really good for is understanding what's going on in on the LinkedIn marketplace, and more importantly, if you're targeted about it and you're very specific about who you're looking at. So, for example, if you want to grow around the marketing conversation, then make sure you're looking at hashtag marketing, you're going through and finding prolific marketing professionals in your area and looking at what they're doing and how they're delivering and what people are interested in and so forth. Um, so in that sense, especially in the early days, that should be a massive priority. Um, but it's it's interesting in the sense that like I think the underlying thing probably is that in any scenario, whether or not you know you prioritize deploying your own content and nurturing that more than connecting with other people, um, the biggest thing everyone should be doing, regardless as to where they're at, is deploying content, you know, creating content and sharing and telling their story. You know, I know that um in my scenario, for example, to share that data, like at any given point in time, at least about 63% of all my profile traffic comes from being discovered in the newsfeed. And the only way you're discovered in the newsfeed is through sharing your own content or engaging with someone else's. So to me, that data, um, which is consistent in a lot of cases that I see, is sort of proof in the pudding that you need to be contributing through content and then also uh engaging with other people so that you get that newsfeed placement, um, you know, which I think is hard for a lot of people because we we've sort of been conditioned to think on LinkedIn that it's all about the keywords, so you get, you know, you get discovered for the right keywords, which is very important. Um, but as LinkedIn's evolved as a platform, it's become a content haven before. You would know this better than I. You've been on there, you know, like well before I have. And LinkedIn was never a content haven before. There wasn't as much content out there, there weren't as many people contributing, and particularly in the forms they are now. So, in that sense, the way people use the platform has very much changed. And so, now in terms of getting discovered and becoming top of mind and getting that top of feed placement, the top of news feed placement, um, it's important that you appreciate the changing dynamic in terms of how people use it. And that includes for people like job seekers who typically would only rely on keywords, um, they really need to be mindful of that and how they're leveraging it, right? I suppose, and working to the ego of the algorithms. That's that's what I like to call it, is they give the algorithm what it wants. The algorithm wants you to engage with other people, go and do it. You know, the algorithm wants you to share content, go and do it, right? Anything you can do to feed the algorithm's ego, which in most cases pretty much involves doing anything on LinkedIn that increases your time on the platform, or it drives someone else to increase their time on the platform, you're gonna get rewarded for it. So if you want to leverage that, um, that's the probably the best thing to do. You know what doing it's sincere as well, right? That's the hard part, balancing that, not losing sight of say volume of activity over value, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

It's uh volume versus I I like I like that. So um I I posted a couple weeks ago. I was gonna have Shea Robotham on the show, and she commented in the post just to she broke the damn internet. And yeah, it blows my mind.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Your profile graph are like this, it was just like this, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:30

It was just it went like there was like 6,000 views on the image. It was ludicrous. And um that that's the power of it, the power of being able to, you know. But the downside of that is like post-interview to get her attention again, or sort of texting her, um, it's it's extremely difficult because I'm back in the noise now, right? Just back to the everyday bombarding and she's like, I don't I think she posted uh something about it the other day that if I don't respond uh to something you've tagged me and get other people to talk about it, I'll keep getting notifications because it's just so so that that brings me to to to to ask you how have you been able to manage this growth? Because it's a tremendous amount of time. Do you have do you have a helper that that helps you respond to people? Are you doing it all on your own? Because it it does become extremely time consuming while extremely important all at the same time. So how do you manage that?

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Yeah, it's very good question. Um, I remember in the early days when I first got started, especially because I just did not anticipate it, right? It was um it was very time consuming. And usually every Sunday, for example, I'd sit down for like four hours just trying to respond to private messages. And literally it would have been about two months ago. I'm going through my private messages, right? And I see there's still some I haven't responded to from like 2018. And there was one guy in particular, and I responded to him and like this is like two months ago, and it literally on the day I responded, it'd been 12 months since you sent his message. And he's like, I was still waiting to hear from you, and we're just talking, whatever, and you know, he's seeing he's trying to raise capital for his startup and all that sort of stuff, and and it turned into this funny conversation. But I was like, wow, like that's an ex you know, an example of like, I suppose, how much you need to sort of really think about these things in terms of managing your profile, right? Because, say, for example, you are going on there to grow a business, build a brand, and all that sort of stuff. I mean, managing your community and managing your audience, you know, to ensure you can maintain that relationship with them is important. Um, and that was certainly something I never anticipated from the beginning. Um, I mean, even going through um connection requests, you know, and it's like there's always like 16,000 sitting there, and I'm just like, God, guys, I can't accept this, you know, like, and it's crazy and you feel bad, and then people are like, oh, but please accept it. And I'm like, I've got it sort of really can't, right? Like, you know, you get capped. Um, but in terms of now, like I've certainly developed um better systems for myself, um, for example, around how I manage things like, say, for example, when people send me connection requests, um, because I know that generally speaking, like I'm not gonna be able to accept the right, because you get capped at the 30,000 direct connection. So I've developed a system around that. So, for example, like I have my message for people where it's like, guys, I'm sorry, can't please do follow me. And I do go through sometimes and sort of clean up my um followers um and like and all that sort of stuff, right? So I have that in place in terms of support, no, but like I've got admin support, I suppose, external to LinkedIn. So in terms of going, like, okay, I'm gonna migrate stuff off of LinkedIn into say email, right? Then it's like, okay, that's where the management comes in. Because that's the other thing, I suppose, is particularly when you build a personal brand that I suppose is sort of extends beyond your actual profession, right? Like you have a lot of stuff to manage on LinkedIn in terms of like diversity of what people are coming to you for. So you really have to get clear on how you personally are going to go through and go, well, what's my criteria and how do I manage this? Because as much as I would love to get on a call with everyone that wants to get on a call, it's just not pragmatic, you know, it's just not realistic for me and my business and so forth. So I wouldn't say that I've got my systems uh perfect. I certainly wouldn't say that. Um, but it is uh a work in progress and I've made a lot of improvements um because it just especially at one point, I was like, oh, this is too much. I was I'm just gonna close the thing down, I can't deal with this, you know. I've never had notifications on. I mean, notifications very similar to show, like it's just to try and catch a notification, you know, when you've got notification comes through, it's like almost every minute. I so difficult. And you know, to try and find the things that you really want to pay attention to and you really want to see, which is like dimensions and stuff like that. I mean, it's just so difficult. So that's a little bit of pressure on LinkedIn to just improve the user experience. But anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah. So where do you think we're headed with all this next 12, 12 to 24 months? Do you think it's gonna continue? Do you think the wave is gonna continue to um you know crash perfectly over the reef and you know, and and and the community is gonna continue to grow?

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yeah, I think it will. Um, you know, the platform's growing um quite decently. And since they were acquired and all that sort of stuff, I mean it's it's performing very well like as a business, as a company, right? Um, I think in terms of like members yet, given that'll keep growing, I think what's gonna be interesting is that as the number of people who are engaging with and contributing to the content landscape on LinkedIn, it's gonna be interesting to see how that sort of dynamic changes. Um, I mean, I'm sure um that some of the some of the other LinkedIn influencers you've had on the podcast have already spoken to this. And I've just got to say I don't actually like calling myself a LinkedIn influencer, but we'll go with that.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I don't know what to tell you guys. Like my LinkedIn people, my LinkedIn squad.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Um, you know, even in say like the last 12 months, like you know, we've really noticed a change in the uh say the organic content performance that people are getting, right? So for example, if you look at say two years ago, um around yeah, two years ago this month, that I started, you know, what you would get, say the performance of a video within the first one hour, 24 hours, and so forth, um, you're not seeing that as commonly anymore, um, even for new starters, right, on the LinkedIn platform. Um, and that's sort of putting pressure on people who are already on the platform, um, but also as well as people who start right now, right? Because say someone like me, I started two years ago, and I'm like, this shit's insane, you guys gotta get on here, whatever. And I talk about the stats that related to when I got started. And then so people start now and they're like, but I'm not getting that. And it's like, well, one, you've you've posted one video for Christ's sakes and you set your profile up yesterday. Be patient, right? Right, you know, the other thing is like the algorithm's changing, the you know, how the dilution of content's changing, so many more people are contributing now and whatnot. Um, so I think it's going to be super interesting to see how that changes because as that, sorry, as that also puts pressure on people who are already on the platform, you know, there's a lot of pressure on people now to want to retain and maintain, right, that performance they've had before it started becoming so diluted. And in some cases, you know, they're developing certain strategies that again, I mean, are they even sustainable, right? Um, you know, so things like say, and I think it's a really fascinating conversation that I won't go into because I get stuck in a rabbit hole thinking about it, but you know, things like engagement pods and the support groups and whatnot, you know, there's a really interesting conversation around that in terms of like if you look at say Facebook and a paid advertising landscape, and they penalize, like they legally sort of penalize coordinated inauthentic behavior, which is something that say an engagement pod could to an extent be classified as, right? But because it's in an organic environment and you're not using it for paid content, it's treated and perceived differently. So I think as LinkedIn becomes more diluted, that conversation is going to become a lot more common. Um, and particularly enterprises who are looking to really capitalize and leverage on LinkedIn, um, they're really gonna have to start thinking about how they um sort of you know strategically build that momentum for themselves in light of sort of not being able to get maybe the you know the earlier stage um sort of quick growth that people got when they first started on the platform. Um, but on that note, I think you know the hashtags uh element of LinkedIn as a tool, if you like, um, is something really important that everyone should be focusing on. And that's going to actually support people who are participating in that content landscape. Um, I want to say off the top of my head, it's probably about eight months ago, maybe thereabouts, that LinkedIn started to, I suppose they sort of improve the level of importance that hashtags play on the platform. Um, so you know they made the change whereby you can sort of proactively and easily um go and sort of manage what hashtags your profile is following and whatnot. And we're starting to see them use hashtags uh more uh I suppose commonly or more frequently in the way in their recommender systems than how that then curates your own personal news feed for you. So as a content creator, for example, or even as someone on there just trying to get in touch or you know, connect with certain people, um, really pay attention to the hashtags feature. You know, be mindful of what hashtags your profile is following because um a recommender system is similar to that of, say, you know, if anyone who's listening, for example, that's not doesn't understand maybe that tech element, but you look at say Netflix, right? You watch this film and then Netflix starts recommending you films that are similar to that because it believes based on its back-end criteria that well, because you watch that you're gonna like this. And we're seeing that sort of strategy being sort of increasingly um used and being shown a lot more on the user interface on LinkedIn. Um, and hashtags play a crucial role in that. So I think it's gonna be interesting to see what happens in that space, particularly because I'll stop rambling in a sec. But I guess I'm excited. But LinkedIn traditionally, and even now it's not, it's still so far away. LinkedIn is not optimized for content creators. You know, you look at something as basic as your profile configuration, right? You go to Facebook, and Facebook automatically puts all your photos. Into a photos album. You know, it automatically puts all your videos into a videos album. LinkedIn, what have we got? We just got the documents folder or the documents feed. It's not even a folder, right? So in that sense, LinkedIn is like sort of, you know, in retrospect, really just trying to uh like the, I suppose the innovation in terms of how people are using LinkedIn is really significantly outpacing how they develop the platform to be able to support that um effectively, right? And I think maybe that's why a lot of people, say large content creators on other platforms, um haven't really given it the attention it deserves because they're like, well, it's an online CV, um, and like the the the feed experience, the the profile configuration experience, it's crap and it doesn't support my content well, right? So um, yeah, I think we'll see those changes start to happen a lot in the in the coming months and years and whatnot, and it'll be great. And then more people will be on LinkedIn doing videos.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Well, I mean, if you look at how long Facebook's been around, and Facebook has just now become the backyard barbecue. Before it was like the place to be seen. Now it's kind of just, you know, let me share my life with you. Uh, LinkedIn is more of, you know, let's connect and get some shit done and build relationships at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Um building business, building brand and stuff, I think it's awesome. And you know, what's interesting is LinkedIn, and this is what I love most about it, I think, is people, at least for the large part, on there, they're looking for substantial conversations. They're looking for those big, meaningful conversations. So they're willing to invest a little bit more time into consuming content, you know, and actually interacting with you. It's not so much about the give me a quick photo I can quickly look at or whatever. And in that sense, highly opportunistic for anyone who actually wants to use their sort of expertise and really just sort of broadcast that and grow it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

So the content is not just about posting a video or an image or a motivational quote, or let me just use video or image. It is about the direct response copy that's being put in the post, correct? It's what's getting people to actually read the post, not just you can't just post a video and hope that people are going to go and watch. I mean, you probably could now, but you've blazed a trail. You could probably hit a bunch of, you know, put it, you know, the dollar sign and the pound sign and an at sign as the text and hit post and the thing where you'd break the damn internet. Um, but most people can't do that because it is becoming noisier on on the internet. I think people still have that old mentality that, oh, it's my LinkedIn profile. So I need to post business stuff about it because it's a business profile. And that's just a that's a big fat lie, right? So you need to post stuff that that actually matters.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Uh export that little snippet of you saying that with the video and present it at every workshop I do because you say it so much better than I am. I'm I want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

You're done deal. I got this whole thing. We got recorded, we got the sound bite, the whole nine for sure. We got I don't hear my sounds. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I wasn't sure it came time. I just got this neat roadcaster over here, and I feel like I'm in a spaceship over here just pushing buttons. But uh Jack Jack Nicholson's a fan of the show. I told him that he needs to uh he needs to join LinkedIn. You know what he told me?

SPEAKER_01 47:05

I eat breakfast 300 yards from 4,000 Cubans who are trained to kill me. So don't think for one second that you can come down here, flash a badge, or make me nervous.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

All right, Jack. My goodness. So speaking of LinkedIn pods, I had no idea about these. Shea told me I was living underneath a rock. She's like, dude, get with the program. Um so I just I'm like sticking my toe into the whole LinkedIn pod world, which for those of you that are not informed, you probably aren't because I just don't learn about what they are. It's a form of they're they're they're pod, they're engagement pods. So it allows you to post put content to these pods and have people view and interact with the content and and some of them actually respond on your behalf, which does concern me slightly. I was a little freaked out last week. I'm like, I don't think I just said thanks. What happened here? So I joined like Lem Pod or some one of these pods that you're good. Are these good, bad, or indifferent? The first thing I think about with automation is a violation of the terms of services, what's the first thing I think of, and this could potentially mean trouble. Number one, number two, does LinkedIn even know you're using pods?

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Yeah. Well, I think there's there's a whole bunch of angles to that conversation. It's interesting, like as Shay probably noted, like a lot of people are using them. Um, I think from an automation standpoint, like LinkedIn really doesn't like automation. Um, I've been blocked from commenting on my own content or anyone else's, seriously, because I commented too fast too many times, right? I put this one post out ages ago, and really based on what everyone commented, it was just like congrats, congrats, congrats. So I copy and pasted, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks. And after I did it a couple of times, because LinkedIn detected the automation and it freaked out, right? Because that was repetitive though, repetitive automation. And LinkedIn actually blocked me. I had to raise support tickets to be able to comment on anything again on LinkedIn. It was the most ridiculous experience. So without digressing, like there's that element, the automation. LinkedIn really, as it currently stands, may change over time and they may become more say open to it, you know, because they sort of get pressured into doing it. Um, but as I currently really don't like automation, robotic behavior and whatnot. So that's one thing to be mindful of. I think with the pods, what's most important, right? And it can become like quite a contentious conversation. But I think people need to really figure out again, it goes back to what's your strategy for LinkedIn. It's the same question, like what's your objective? Like, what are you trying to achieve? Because if, for example, you were an enterprise and you were trying to build a very targeted list of leads, an engagement prop is probably going to distract you from what you're actually there to achieve. And therefore, it sort of takes away your focus from being able to apply your time and effort and money and so forth to getting the best ROI. Because if you use, say, an automated pod or even a manual one, right? And your content just starts sort of getting exposure all over the place, right? You end up sort of diluting your own message, and it makes it a little bit more difficult to get that clarity around what's working and what's not working. Because if you are artificially sort of manipulating engagement, the thing you've got to be mindful there is like, okay, well, how do we actually know what content performs the best, right? So in terms of how we invest our time, money, and resources, how do we know what video content is actually the best performing or what articles and blogs or what text posts, if we're artificially manipulating it from the outset? So that is another big thing, particularly from an enterprise level. Um, but I think generally speaking, um, you know, if you are to use them, um, what's most important is that you want to try and find maybe a solution, if you want to call it that, you know, that is um targeted, right? So, say for example, you're on there to achieve a specific thing, which is maybe build your client base in XYZ industry or build a lead list of this persona, right? Then you need to make sure that you're only engaging in solutions like that that are actually going to support that mission, because otherwise what happens for a lot of people is they'll go, yeah, well, I'm targeting this really specific persona, but I'm gonna go in all these engagement pods. That some of them, you know, they've got 200 different users in there and whatnot. Um, but then you end up getting so distracted and so excited by getting all these views, right? So then it becomes an ego game. And then you wonder why you're still not making money. And so I think people need to balance that um and really just get clear on yeah, the views are great. Um, but as a lot of people say, and I think it's you know, it's quite like your followers aren't going to pay the bills necessarily for most people, right? If you're becoming a global personal brand and your objective is to be on the stages and whatnot, and you really become that global influencer, your followers that will probably help pay the bills. For the average business owner, probably not, right? Really, they just need the follower base for the social proof. But what's more important than that is actually having those sort of conversations that are largely geared towards turning into some sort of sale or some sort of engagement. So, really, I think it's just getting clear on your objectives first and then figuring out whether or not there is, say, an engagement pod solution that's going to actually help serve your objectives. Um, but beyond that, I think what I get most excited about with that conversation is you know just sort of the broader marketing landscape. You know, if you look at Facebook and they recently banned another um, you know, paid advertiser for using a similar strategy through automation and robotics and whatnot, and to go and do um content uh uh content engagement sort of manipulation and artificially manipulate the engagement using automation on paid ads, right? So the reason that they got absolutely slammed for that and banned from using the Facebook platform is because it was in a paid environment, so it makes it more dangerous, right? Um because it's material. But so at the moment, we're currently turning a blind eye to that in the organic space. But I think what we'll see over time is that really starts, they really start to gel together. Um, because even as say a marketer, right, or a business owner, or even say um just as a personal brand, um, I mean, how do we consider, say, if you look at traditional marketing and you know, you can't sort of, you know, uh deploy false and misleading advertising and stuff like that. I mean, how will we as a social media population begin to perceive artificially manipulating content engagement? Is that deception? Are we being deceived, you know? And I think it just becomes this really massive, complicated um philosophical conversation. Really, yeah, yeah. Um, but I think it's gonna be very important, um, particularly for how these platforms evolve and what sort of things they put in place and stuff. So yeah. So in terms of whether or not I should use it, I personally don't. Um, but at the same time, like pardon.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

You don't need to.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

So um, yeah, I think it's okay. Always clear on your objective and make sure whatever you're doing on there is um is serving your objective at the end of the day, and you don't lose sight of your own identity as a business or an individual. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Yeah, there's no set it and forget it as a business. If you're just getting started as an individual, there's a few hacks out there to be able to get the to get the engines riled up and and get your content going on there, but it's your job to build the brand and it takes longer than you think. There is no overnight success. Um you put your blood, sweat, and tears in it like anything else uh in life. So I think the million dollar question uh and I think why I would say 90% of people are on LinkedIn. There's like 10% that are just on there to feed their ego, maybe maybe a little bit more than that. But a majority of people are on there to be able to say, hey, look at me, look at my content, or hey, look at me because I'm engaging. And then please DM me and give me a lead. Right and let's schedule a call.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Or on there just pay for that money, that's a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

So if I'm gonna have an ego about my content, I want the ego to be about I hope this content piques people's interest. Oh, you know what? Maybe a podcast is my natural next move. So the million dollar question how do you generate leads on LinkedIn? How do you get that inbox just overflowing and responding to messages a year later? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah. Oh that's a big question.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Um we're closing with this question. So this is like you know. Um but I'm sure so look at it this way, because we're we're almost out of time and I don't want to keep you all night, literally. Oh yeah. Pretend that you and I hopped in the back of a cab randomly together and struck up a conversation and you realize, oh my gosh, you're Sebastian Rusk with fill in the blank company. I've been wanting to have a conversation with your team forever. Well, great, I can totally make that happen. We've got a bit of a ride here, it's about seven minutes long, maybe about five minutes long. Um, what our biggest need right now, Sally, is this of an organization is to generate leads. So, how do I do that?

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Yeah, okay. I'm not gonna get into any of the tactical things like you know, in-mail strategies or content strategies and clickbait headline strategies, whatever. I'll keep it really simple. I think the best place to start from a content marketing perspective, if you want to generate leads on LinkedIn, you need to have a content marketing strategy in place. You have to have it, right? Because people are making educated purchasing decisions more and more in today's day and age. They want to know, they're gonna do a ton of research before they make a decision. Um, and on LinkedIn, you have the capability to use your personal brand or say a company or whatever to really go out there and become the lead educator in that space to help them make that buying decision. So, first things first, you need to have a content marketing strategy. With your content marketing strategy, the most the simplest way I can put the framework sort of out there if you like, particularly through audio, which is difficult, but break it down this way. Always start with expertise, right? I'm sort of showing my hands at the top, expertise, right? So, what is my or our expertise, right? Um, and then what are some key messages under that expertise, those areas of expertise? Because you might have multiple. And then how can we turn those micro messages into content assets? Because that's going to help us build credibility and social proof around who we are, what we're capable of doing, and how we can actually help you. Um, and then you have your other strategies on LinkedIn, which are the more direct and high intent, right? So that could involve reaching out to people, it could involve asking them to go through to this landing page to get a free item and so forth, whatever the scenario is. Um, but you need that content marketing strategy to be in place and be consistent so that when you do, for example, ask someone to do something and say, can you subscribe here or can you put your email here to get this free course or whatever, um, they have something to reference. You make that research process easier for them. So you're asking them for something, they can look at the profile, whether it's company or uh personal, they can go through, have a look, consume some of your content, um, and then really get a feel for who you are, what you're all about. So, really, I think to very, very high level, they're the sorts of things you need to be thinking about because we no longer live in an age where you can just say, um, hey, I'm in front of you, or I'm messaging you, and you should buy this from me, or you should become a lead. Um, because the the reality of the situation is that we as individuals have so much access to information now it's not even funny. Um, and as a result, you can't prey on the naivety of people. So you actually have to go and build solid trust before they'll even have that first conversation with you. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Imagine that we're living in a in a in a in a day and time where we can build trust and relationships through our content, like online, like never meeting anybody.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

So I will share one thing that's a really good example. Um, and I've got plenty of them. I mean, I've had people say to me, we're supposed to go to tender for this, but we just want to work with you. So how can we sort it out, right? You know, because it's such a tender process, whatever. But one of the best ones I've ever heard, um, and the all the best examples come from the content side of things. Um, and the guy literally sat in front of me. He said, Okay, and this is company, we've been watching you for eight months. We noticed that you talk very quickly and you're always putting videos out, so you obviously don't talk shit, and we want to work with you. And I was like, right, okay, good assessment. And guess what? The beauty of it, they've never liked, never commented on anything, but they're watching and they're doing their homework because they're scoping, you know, large-scale work, that they're scoping which key uh service providers they're looking to engage, um, and that's how they did their research on me. Um, so never underestimate the power of the silent people that may or may not be watching, um, because you'll often find that they're actually your biggest ticket opportunities for the LinkedIn platform.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

100%. All right, we got two minutes left here. So we're gonna finish it out with our friends at Pod Decks right here. If you've seen a pod deck before, they're brand new. You might not have seen them before, Sally. Poddex the interview deck contains 50 unique conversations starting questions to help you take your podcast interviews to the next level and keep your audience entertained. I clearly do not have a challenge coming up with questions, but what a brilliant idea, huh? So let's love that. Let's dig into the deck real quick because most of you are like, what am I gonna talk about? Um we'll pull out a question here and see what we're working with.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

That'll be that would actually be really fun to do a whole podcast session on that because like if you think about people playing card games, you know, and like there's these funny card games out there and whatever. That's actually a really cool idea for a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

You like but yeah, Shay and I like unwrapped these things when they actually got here and she wouldn't stop with them. She's like, okay, one more. And we were like at an hour and 20 minutes. I'm like, okay, no more pod decks here. Uh okay, I think I got one, and this is uh completely relevant, um, especially if you were on your way uh over the pond uh to the States here. Who would you most like to sit next to on a 10-hour flight and why?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Oh gosh, I barely want to sit near myself for that long on a flight.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:15

I'm really the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

One person though. Oh, one person. Um okay. Um well, can I can I throw two out there? I'd have to think about it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

Yeah, but you could have one person on each side of you. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Okay. Um yeah, probably I I really like Charlie Munger, who's business partner with Warren Buffett. Really like him and his thinking. And the other person would be Elon Musk, because I actually have this secret sort of like admiration for watching him talk because you can tell he's breaking down these really complex things, and he's like, um, how do I explain it to these idiots who have no idea what I'm talking about? I just love watching him talk. So, yeah, that would probably be out. What about you? Do you get to answer that question?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah, I do I do. Uh, it would it would it would most definitely be Ryan Seacrest. Yeah, close to American Idol. So I've been following his lead for probably the past, you know, since I got my start as far as online stage presence and the whole, you know, and the guy just doesn't mess up and he now runs Hollywood. He took over for you know Dick Clark and the greats, and uh it just has a stellar stellar career. And um, I I I admire him. So I'd love to have a conversation with him. And I believe that'll happen. You never really know. My buddy Ryan went into uh Matthew McConaughey on the airplane the other day.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Yeah, wow. Actually, you know what? And you're right, you never know what'll happen. Something like LinkedIn, and I won't get into it because I'll ramble for hours, but things like social media, including LinkedIn, they really have this capacity to break down those barriers to entry for conversations with people that in past lives you could not get near, right? So you never underestimate it. You'll be on that plane one day with him, I swear.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

You know, hey, we may be on a plane together someday. Who knows, Sally?

unknown 1:01:55

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

Thanks so much for for uh for making time again, literally in the middle of the night in Australia to to to uh to to burn the midnight oil while I'm just now getting in and having my coffee here uh in the States to really share uh what your gift has been uh regarding you know developing your brand. And it's it's just been exciting to continue to watch it unfold and consume your content. I'm fired up to see what things will even look like a year from now from you because um uh you're just doing some really cool stuff. And most important, you're doing shit that matters. You're helping people understand what they don't know that they don't know, and you're also helping brands um work through that that that learning curve of understanding where their place is in this whole crazy loud digital world. So you're gonna have to come back again. Maybe we'll do an episode when just pod decorating.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:39

Yeah, that would be so much fun. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

My pleasure. You ever make it to the States?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Um, no, I've never been, but I do want to come.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

I know I want to go to Australia too.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

Yeah, you should try to be out. Australia's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

I've never met, um, I've I've never met uh uh an Australian Australian that was not awesome. Like I've never met like a mean Australian. I mean, maybe I could spend some time. There's plenty of them around.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Well, apparently we're really laid back here. We're really slow, we're really laid back and all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

So how's everything going with the fires and everything over there?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Yeah, I think it's I think it's slowly getting better. You know, it's not good. Um, and it obviously, you know, I think unfortunately a lot of it sort of um becomes a conversation more about the political side of things and people using it for political sort of you know, sort of warfare and arguments and whatnot, which is a bit disappointing because of how actually extreme it is. Um, but yeah, I think generally speaking, it's you know, it's as good as it can be, I suppose. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

I know everybody's been all hands on deck and uh you know hoping for the best for Australia there. So well, uh all the links and everything we've mentioned in uh in the episode here is gonna be available in the show notes. Um, what's the best way for people to connect with you? Obviously, LinkedIn, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

Yeah, LinkedIn. LinkedIn's the place to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

All right, good deal. So all the links will be in the show notes. Be sure you reach out and connect with uh with Sally. If you send her a message, you're probably not gonna get a response immediately.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Catch me in the comments, usually.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Catch me in the comments. Hey, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

That's like my slag, my slag slogan. My slogan is like catch me in the comments on LinkedIn. That's where you'll find me most.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

Oh, one last question. When are you starting a podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

Oh, well, interestingly, I sort of dipped my toe in one for a bit, uploaded a few things to SoundCloud, but I just, you know what I haven't done? I haven't held myself to account for following through with it. Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

Do you have your past workshops or talks um archived anywhere?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

Yeah, like I've got a whole bunch recorded. Oh, you just extract the audio.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

So I worked, we we worked the magic with your intro, your outro, and make it sound like it's a fresh, what's it called? But you're just teeing up past content that you still talk about today.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Yeah, right.

unknown 1:04:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Put that little put that little podcast bug in your ear.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to. Awesome. Well, maybe I'll start it soon. We might yeah, talk about that. It'll be fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Let's do that. Sally, like thanks again. Let's stay in touch. It's an absolute blessing to to be connected with you. Um, keep rocking and rolling, and uh, I hope you come back soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Easy. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Seb Rush Show. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you consume podcasts. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. If you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. Signing off from the podcast LaunchLab.com studio here in beautiful Coral Gables, Florida. We'll talk to you next time.